to ask if you would really make these journeys without flying for the sake of the environment

[IDSNeighbour]

I'm terrified of flying. I will fly but only if there is absolutely no other feasible way of getting somewhere.

I've just booked my transport for my summer holiday - 36 hours each way on long distance coaches for £230 instead of 2 hours each way on a plane for £160.

A couple of years ago I took 3 trains over about 48 hours to get to Russia for about £300 (I think - can't remember). I think flights took 4 hours though I think they were a similar price that time, not sure.

Other than fear (which isn't that common?), I can't think why anyone would choose a transport method that is both longer AND more expensive, except for environmental reasons. But these buses and trains are pretty popular and book up. I know some will only do one leg but the buses in particular are often straight through and the huge distance tickets are easy to source.

So I'm wondering if anyone would do this purely to lower their carbon footprint? Is it a reasonable expectation on people for the environment?

LakieLady, yes even small changes in our lifestyles are worth making. DP and I aren't model examples by any stretch and we do still have larger carbon footprints than I would like, but just doing anything we feasibly can is helpful.
It definitely is difficult though and the more you try to change/adapt the harder it gets because of the way we've structured society globally. We rely so heavily on plastics, for example, that trying to avoid using plastic is near impossible! Even just looking at my laptop here and thinking about all the materials used to make it... we really need to be changing everything about our lifestyles and returning to a much simpler way of life.
But, in the meantime, any change is better than doing nothing.

The biggest problem underpinning everything is overpopulation... but the answers to that are unpalatable at best.

Ok so if I wanted to go to Paris by Eurostar, I'd have to drive for four hours just to get to London, how long is a flight to Paris, an hour or two? I'm already there in the time it's taken me just to reach London otherwise.

You're not comparing like with like. How long will it take you to get to the airport, how far ahead of your flight do you need to arrive, how long will it take you to get through passport control in Paris and get your luggage then take a train or coach into central Paris?

In contrast Eurostar check-in at St Pancras takes minutes, and when you arrive you are a 15 minute metro ride from the heart of Paris. You can be at your central Paris hotel within 20-30 mins of the train pulling in.

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I don't fly if I can avoid it. Like others, I enjoy train travel and its a positive pleasure to take the train.

I also want to try cruising, particularly to Scandinavia and Russia. I'm guessing cruising is not great for the environment all told, but to me it would be an anxiety free way to go to wonderful places.

So true, misti. I travel regularly between Edinburgh and London, only ever by train. By the time I've got to the airport, checked in, got through security, got to London, got my bag back then got to Central London there is absolutely no way I've saved time over a four and a bit hour train journey.

Yes I know people that do this for environmental reasons, and it is much much better for the environment than flying. But none of them work full time, or they have very generous annual leave. Because the biggest issue is that it takes so long.

Morris I am amazed it takes you 4 and a bit hours on a train from Edinburgh to London. I live a few hours from train from London and it takes me much longer than that. I am guessing it is because of electrification?

It's all relative though, I can be door to door between London and wherever I'm visiting in Scotland by flying in four hours. If you only travel with cabin baggage and have no need to be in central London it's much easier, quicker and cheaper to fly.

No, I love flying. I love trains to but annual leave isn't negotiable!

I love flying but haven't taken a plane anywhere for 15 years now. I would in an emergency, but not otherwise. I mainly travel within Europe and use the Eurostar a lot. I like trains as much as I like planes and the thought of adding a day or two's travel to each end of a holiday is no hardship at all. I am not a good sailor though, and would struggle if I had to travel much further afield.

George Monbiot said the other day that the two key things we must all do is to move to a plant-based diet and stop flying, so it's good to know I have one of those sorted, at least.

East Coast mainline. Depends which train you get, obviously the more stops the longer the journey. With planning, I can get one that doesn't stop after York. Takes 4 hrs 20 I think. Can take up to 4 hrs 40 with more stops. Very rarely runs late.

I hardly any meat, and very rarely fly. Also, live in a flat and only have one child.

I feel better already :)

It would be much quicker for me to fly to Edinburgh, but more importantly, much cheaper. We tend to drive purely because the train is so expensive.

I have taken too many flights in recent years (2-3 return flights/year), although they are all/mostly for work.

The main things I try to do:

I try not to fly anywhere I can get to within a day's travel. Being in Scotland makes it harder, but I can still get to quite a lot of Western Europe in a day.

Take fewer but longer trips abroad, no city breaks, weekends abroad. Rather than two one-week holidays, take one two-week holiday, etc.

Stay in the UK for shorter holidays.

I would find it difficult to give up flying completely, but I think for many (or myself at least) it is quite easy to reduce the amount they fly. And I say this as someone whose family live abroad: we have to give up the idea that we can move away from our families but are still entitled to visit as much as we want no matter the environmental consequences.

Trains being so expensive is a huge factor. There is literally not one journey in my life that could be done cheaper or easier on the train than it could be by car or plane. Even the ones that have to consider congestion charge and expensive parking in London. It would be worth the inconvenience, and obviously better for the environment, if trains weren't so expensive.

On a side note: I would love for an innovative/environmentally-minded employer to give additional annual leave for those deciding to travel by train. So, if you commit to taking the train to Spain for your summer holiday you get two additional days' leave to account for the extra travel time.

I'm genuinely trying to fly less for environmental reasons, and I don't mind forking out a bit more to, say, take the Eurostar. As others have said, though, time is a factor if you only have a few days someplace. Also, I hate ferries and get seasick. My parents live in the west of Ireland and it just takes so bloody long to get there by land and sea, compared to flying - there is a small airport just a few miles away from their house.

I'm better than I was, but not as good as I need to be.

LakieLady - maninseat61 for your venice trip - it's an amazing website. I really want to do his Iceland trip via the Faroe Islands but it's too expensive.

I agree with people who say train travel is much better than coaches but the trains were too expensive for me this time. Coach was still much more than the plane but less of a financial hit. And it sounds ok - large, reclining seats, free WiFi, power sockets and a toilet. I think they're better than British coaches.

There are a couple of things I'd like to experience in real life - Auschwitz, the Northern Lights, Sistene Chapel and Niagara falls, however I'm happy to look at videos/pictures and know I'm not contributing to environmental destruction. My reasons for wanting to see these things are selfish, as are most people's reasons for holidaying. It's that utter sense of entitlement that is more important to many humans than taking a step back and realising our contribution to what we are doing to the planet

I agree it's selfish. But I could never be just as happy looking at pictures or learning about it over the internet. Travel is one of my main pleasures in life. Maybe if I had children or a partner it would be different and I would have other priorities but that's never going to happen for me. I don't think I should feel guilty about 1 big holiday a year (of those maybe 1 in 3 involves a plane) - my carbon footprint must be tiny compared to people who have children. Plus I don't have the emotional incentive of leaving younger loved ones on a ruined planet.

I didn't fly until I was 19 (Corfu) and then not until I was 38. Since then I've taken 4 return flights to the US so to be honest I don't feel too guilty.

It took me 15 hours to get to Mali in April... by plane. I don't think you could do it another way tbh. I take the train across Europe because you don't have to be at the depot 2-3 hours early.

I have taken a coach from Scotland to the Netherlands once and would never do it again. I'd rather just not go than have 24 hours on that sick-inducing thing.

Alaimo I am sure it is easy to reduce the amount you fly if you still manage to get in 2-3 return flights a year. This is still more flights a year than most people I know.

I travel long-haul at least once, but sometimes twice per month. It's part of my job and there is no way that the job can be performed without physically being in X location. There's also no way to get there without flying, given that my job involves incredibly tight deadlines.

I'm cognizant that its terrible for the environment, but I try to offset my carbon footprint by walking to work, living in a flat, not having kids, and eating meat-free/veggie about three times per week. I try to buy sustainable brands as much as possible too.

I also try to time my holidays around a work trip, so that I'm not taking additional flights for pleasure and myself, DH and friends do a lot of staycations too (I'm not based in the UK).

I was speaking to my boss about this just now and she was amazed that people voluntarily take longer journeys/pay more money/etc to avoid flying for environmental reasons

Pursefirst - to be fair, if you don't have children I think you're automatically having a far lower impact on the environment than most of the rest of us on this site so I wouldn't worry too much.

Interesting about fast fashion. I never buy new clothes, there's plenty in charity shops to be going on with.

I really think we need to bring back the sleeper train - especially on the continent, where trains are much bigger than ours. British sleepers are always going to be rather pokey affairs.

There are sleeper trains in Europe - loads of them, I think.

I did Cologne to Warsaw on a sleeper then Warsaw to Moscow on another sleeper.

The sleeper train through Spain and Portugal I was going to book this year was actually really reasonably priced (£30 single) but the long distance daytime train through France made the journey as a whole too expensive (about £90 single) and meant I had to go with the coach.

Sleeper trains do make me a bit panicky though. It's something about lying down on a fast, clanky train - especially if it's dark and you're in one of those tiny berths with 3 tiers of beds. I felt very enclosed and at the same time unstable and a bit 'out of body'. I get used to it but I don't like it. Not as bad as the constant fear of imminent, plunging, fiery death I get when flying though!