To not feel happy with gender neutral toilets at work?

[BalletBunting]

My company has recently relabelled all toilets on my floor as 'gender neutral'. As well as being rather confused as to what the need is for them (there are no trans people at my work as far as I'm aware) I don't like them, and I would prefer to keep the ladies loo as is. The nearest women's toilets is 3 floors up now!

I don't really feel comfortable going to the loo knowing that there are men in there but I don't really know how to bring this up and with who. I work for a large media company, fairly young/progressive and I don't want to cause trouble for myself.

There was also absolutely no consultation regarding the change. If anyone has been in a similar situation and managed to come to a different solution? Or AIBU and should drop it?

Once again I will remind you all that women are constantly told that we need to keep ourselves safe, risk assess and not put ourselves in risky situations. We are told constantly that expecting men who sexually assault women to change their behaviour is unrealistic so the responsibility is on us to keep ourselves safe from danger.

Yet here we have another example of women's concerns being dismissed, belittled and mocked. We have people who are quite happy to take away this one small aspect of life which contributes to keeping us safe. Incredible.

I guarantee that if a woman is sexually assaulted in a mixed sex toilets then the same people who shrug their shoulders at using them will be the first people to ask wtf she was doing in a mixed sex toilet in the first place.

WOMENS BOUNDARIES ARE BEING ERODED.

This

What kind of men do you all work with that stink and piss everywhere??? Never had an issue with a toilet for everyone and I think all toilets should be like this.

Whooppee for you that you've never had an issue. I've worked in several places where toilets are shared with men and the poor state of the toilets is a common occurrence. I end up going to McDonald's or a supermarket to use the toilet.

Amazed at the concept that only men pee on the seats. If that's the case, there must have been an awful lot of men sneaking into the women's toilets I've used over the years

Yep. I'd rather share with men than "hoverers" any day.

well said arabella.

as for the phrase 'gender neutral' - i cant imagine saying it without laughing.

Bit by bit the fuckers are trying to push back and remove every single sex-based right which women have

These fuckers?

But you will still be sharing with the hoverers....

@birdsdestiny - 'by penetration' is a pretty important addition to your earlier remark, isn't it?

@scottishdoll The thing is that fight was won long ago
No, it wasn't. As exemplified by a MILLION ways in which women are second class citizens.

@talkinginthedark you're asking the wrong people - if you want to know why the OP's company decided to change the policy, you need to ask them. As for her feelings being irrelevant - I never said they were - but they don't trump someone else's feelings, and there is the provision for her to use a single sex toilet.

You are assuming the move to gender neutral spaces is driven by men, which basically makes no sense. Unless you count trans women as men, in which case, you know, there's a fundamental difference in our beliefs that goes deeper than where we piss.

The other thing I find incredibly weird is something a PP touched upon - this odd internalised shame about the processes of our bodies. Why should we feel shame or discomfort at letting men know we fart and shit and (shock horror!) menstruate? Why should those processes be hidden away from men, but not from women? Surely making these things more transparent can only help to educate and enlighten.

As for you insisting on using the word 'woke', I'm far too old to be 'woke', but I'm definitely not asleep. Cupcake.

being confronted with a man using the wash basin

What is with this kind of language? "confronted" he is only washing his hands, not waiting to pounce on you like a rabid dog!

Nicely put- I agree!

as for the phrase 'gender neutral' - i cant imagine saying it without laughing

It used to mean not overtly masculine or feminine - so painted beige or green or something ………. rather than pink and flowery or blue with cars

Once again I will remind you all that women are constantly told that we need to keep ourselves safe, risk assess and not put ourselves in risky situations.

These are people OP works with. She's just as likely to find herself alone with them in numerous other situations during the working day, e.g. if she comes in early or leaves late, or in meetings. If anything the risk in toilets is less because other people are coming in and out all the time.

How messy are you at changing a tampon if you end up with blood on your hand

How do you NOT get blood on your hands?

I’m usually ok with a bit of bogroll to wipe it up....but im well aware t other women have much heavier periods than me

It is possible buy fake blood. Or make it.... it would be so ace to rinse a “bloodied” menstrual cup / wash bloodied hands in front of the MD. Bet that would reverse the decision. Or leave stains on the sinks / loos.

I’m not suggesting to do it. And I wouldn’t feel able. But this is the sort of action required.

When a woman enters or exits a bathroom stall she has the right to trust that her surroundings are safe and she will not find herself already in an eclosed space with a man she has not risk assessed

I think I agree with that with public toilets. However, for me work is different as I know the guys I work with and my employee has risk assessed them

I think you will find a lot of transwoman actually understand and accept they are men @mannersmakethepig.

Admitedley these tend to be the quieter and more sane ones. Miranda Yardley is one. My friend who is a transwoman also has no problem admitting that she is biologically a man.

With respect, being trans doesn't mean you lose complete grip of reality.

Cross post sort of with Isatis

YANBU. This gerndercrap is getting way out of hand and company should be ashamed

For me it’s not an issue with the cleanliness.

I am a women in a male dominated profession. If I was using the toilet next to one of my male colleagues then I’d feel less professional when talking him to afterwards when I know he has heard me go to the toilet or unwrap a sanitary towel. I don’t feel like this with my female colleagues at all as we’re all women together.

Also, my work toilets that open directly onto the corridor. One of my male bosses always seems to be standing outside the door when I’m in the toilet, maybe he likes to listen!

I don't have an issue with it. I'll apply make up next to a man, no problem. And if I'm in a cubicle, it matters not who is next to me. But the fact that it does worry so many people makes it a concern. What do men think of it?

Are there as many who dislike it as women? I bet there's more than you think hate it too.

Of all the world's problems, converting loads of toilets into GN seems an odd place to start!

Bring it up, OP. I'm sure you won't be the only one.

work is different as I know the guys I work with and my employee has risk assessed them

I don't think there are many women who have not encountered unwelcome advances from men at work.

YANBU. It's the lack of information and consultation that seems problematic. And as PP have pointed out, there are also health & safety regulations around the designs of unisex toilets that do not seem to have been taken on board.

I'd talk to HR.

YANBU at all OP

and:
WOMENS BOUNDARIES ARE BEING ERODED

reapply makeup? Often I have private chats with female colleagues

Not sure it is your works responsibility to provide makeup or chat rooms. As long as the cubicle has a door with a lock its private enough to do your 1s and 2s. Can't imagine what 'spills' you get at a media company.

We should be working towards the erosion of things that make women need or feel they need boundaries. Not protecting the boundaries themselves.

Whooppee for you that you've never had an issue. I've worked in several places where toilets are shared with men and the poor state of the toilets is a common occurrence. I end up going to McDonald's or a supermarket to use the toilet.

Really, another one hear that's work in male dominated and shared toilets with no issues. However found McDonald's and supermarket toilets vile.

So many acting like men are forcing this and women shouldn't be subjected to this. I doubt that's actually true.They probably have no urge to stand peeing in a cubicle next to a women than the other way round.

I suggest OP you take your confidential chatting time at lunch time or after work. If it's personal stuff then whoever you're talking to will be able to spare you time then. If it's actually office bitching (probably about the menz) don't do it.

Actually perhaps that's why the employers have introduced it stop the excessive time women having personal chats in the loos. Fair play it could increase the productivity!