To not feel happy with gender neutral toilets at work?

[BalletBunting]

My company has recently relabelled all toilets on my floor as 'gender neutral'. As well as being rather confused as to what the need is for them (there are no trans people at my work as far as I'm aware) I don't like them, and I would prefer to keep the ladies loo as is. The nearest women's toilets is 3 floors up now!

I don't really feel comfortable going to the loo knowing that there are men in there but I don't really know how to bring this up and with who. I work for a large media company, fairly young/progressive and I don't want to cause trouble for myself.

There was also absolutely no consultation regarding the change. If anyone has been in a similar situation and managed to come to a different solution? Or AIBU and should drop it?

@Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

Yes, I agree and I think often none of the options are very good, depending on how supportive the people around you are.
As a trans woman you could

• go to the women’s toilet, but potentially be reported or harassed if you don’t “pass” (and I think there’s plenty of evidence that many mumsnetters are not happy with trans women using women’s toilets or changing rooms)
• go to the men’s toilets, where as a woman you are particularly vulnerable to harassment, will have to see men at urinals, etc.
• go to gender neutral toilets and have men around, but they’re using cubicles and you are not constantly the only woman there

Personally I’d prefer it if we could have gender seperated toilet and everyone got a lot more tolerant, but that doesn’t seem to be happening.

I would have been extremely uncomfortable with this. Thank goodness I am now past retirement age.

Which would happen with gender neutral toilets, especially if it meant an end to urinals.

It would happen? How exactly can you assume to know it would happen? Id be interesting in knowing what information are basing this assumption off of.

If you're that bad at it take baby wipes in your handbag to clean up and make life more sanitary for your fellow toilet users

And while you’re at it, take a bottle of water with you so you can clean your moon cup in the toilet cubicle and not splatter the contents around the communal basin that other people need to use to clean their hands.

I do think its a bit gross washing a mooncup in the communal sink or being so messy your hands are covered in period blood (very unhygienic)

@GoneGirl yes and I suppose if I chose to stay home all the time, I’d never have to be alone with men on any form of public transport. Could skip the job interviews and live on the governments very generous benefit package?

(I’m sorry, I’m probably being unnecessarily facetious)

My point, I suppose, is that it’s all a very delicate balancing act. Some things I can choose to avoid, as you say, some things I just have to suck it up and deal, some things I feel allowances should be made (content warnings inconvenience nobody and really contribute to my ability not to have panic attacks!). But “what about the rape victims” seems to be a trump card that is used really specifically for issues around toilets and it’s not always that simple.

@riotlady Yes you are being unnecessarily facetious, but I accept your apology

The point is, employers do not need to put women in this position. It IS one of those avoidable cases whereas something like a job interview, as you say, may not be.

being so messy your hands are covered in period blood (very unhygienic)

Messy?

I’ve never had my hands covered but accidents happen...and i still can’t really work out how you’d get a tampax in without touching anything

Use them as little as humanly possible myself

Maybe I'm in the minority but I love them especially when the sink is inside - great when you're on your period and need to get to the sink quickly!

Also, according to this article, the separation of bathrooms in the first place was a form of subjugation of women

Well that's bollox. Don't expect anything else from the guardian these days though unfortunately.

There was no "separation" of bathrooms. Before women campaigned for their own, it was only men's and therefore womens ability to participate in public life was restricted. So for women to get their own facilities was actually liberating.

I don’t use them but where should someone wash out their mooncup if not in the sink of the toilets?

I don’t agree with saying rape victims are a “trump card”. I am a rape victim, and I don’t feel that strongly about unisex toilets but I understand why people do. When it comes to female only spaces, rape or sexual violence victims should rightly be a pretty damn important consideration.

@fromeden

Can you provide any reading material on this, please? I’d be interested to know more.

I don’t use them but where should someone wash out their mooncup if not in the sink of the toilets?

You carry a small bottle of water and empty and rinse the mooncup down the toilet.

we currently have two ceiling to floor toilets with enclosed sinks that are not gender assigned with roughly ten male staff members to about twenty five female. In nearly ten years I've never once had an experience of pee on the floor, seat or a seat left up. Our relatively small staff (compared to a big workplace) and the fact I've taught sex Ed with half the men so really don't feel phased about periods means that I really don't find unisex toilets intimidating. It's blood and sanitary towels poking out the bin that is our messy problem. I guess it depends on your colleagues!

fromeden

I agree

I also read ages ago so I can’t remember where that the first department stores were very keen to make sure there was toilet provision for women

We have unisex toilets at work. 22 individual cubicles with a sink in.

They're generally kept a hell of a lot cleaner than the women's toilets.. Spraying hoverers who don't wipe up drive me bloody insane. Just sit on the damned seat!!

I don't take any notice of the sounds of other people using the toilet, so I presume no one is there listening to me.

My first full time job, 27 years ago had unisex toilets. Also wasn't an issue then.

Oh. And the first transgender person I worked with, at the same job (but not reason for unisex toilets), I didn't even know was transgender for about 2 years.. So don't presume you don't work with a transgender woman or man.

here is a link about the history of public toilets for women

"In Victorian Britain, most public toilets were designed for men. Of course, this affected women’s ability to leave the home, as women who wished to travel had to plan their route to include areas where they could relieve themselves. Thus, women never travelled much further than where family and friends resided. This is often called the ‘urinary leash’, as women could only go so far as their bladders would allow them.

This lack of access to toilets impeded women’s access to public spaces as there were no women’s toilets in the work place or anywhere else in public. This led to the formation of the Ladies Sanitary Association, "

Just empty the mooncup down the loo and wipe with loo roll.

So women getting their own facilities wasn't "subjugation" at all. It was the opposite, and what women were actually campaigning for. Only someone who wants to justify removing female spaces would say that.

I personally don’t have an issue with mixed sex toilets although 100% support those who do and understand why this is an issue

However I am also amongst those who are perplexed at the washing a mooncup out at the sink argument. Do women really remove a cup, pull their knickers and clothes back on, go to the sink, empty it, wash it then return to the cubicle to reinsert it?

Rather than empty it down the loo and blot it clean with some toilet paper? And similarly wipe ones hand with toilet paper if they’re bloody?

I wouldn’t want to be pouring my menstrual blood out in front of a female OR male colleague.

Also perplexed by

I can't help but think it's weird how they're always used as seedy gay sex locations

Nor ones in places of work surely? 😳

kierenthecommunity i only know one person who uses one. She said she will empty it in the loo, but prefers to quickly rinse before re-inserting, plus washes her hands before and after so outside sinks do sound like it would be a faff.

I am tampon&pad combo, and on those occasions i flood as well as blotting with tissue, I normally also end up dampening tissue to wipe my bits & legs.

Strongly considering a petition for sinks in every bathroom stall the more i think of it

I use a mooncup and wouldn't dream of emptying it in the sink. You give it a good shake when it comes out, wipe it and pop it back. I tend to have a bottle of water to szjush off my hands if needed. No way would I trot out in front of anyone. And I'm not precious about periods. We all have em.
It's clearly a very contentious issue and someone is always going to feel let down by it, segregated or not segregated. What's the answer? Can we find a solution that suits every one? Should there be a "third" toilet? That's quite a hefty thought. When I need to go, I'll go anywhere but I suspect it would make people just as uncomfortable to be assigned a "you're not..." loo.
What's the solution? Can we put our hive mind into that?

Where I work we only have one set of toilets for everybody (well, the director has an executive loo, but the rest of us: 40 men and 40 women only have one set to share) and it has been like that since we moved to a new building 25+ years ago. I can honestly say I don't even particularly notice if I'm sharing the space with men or women - they are just colleagues and everyone is respectful - no piss anywhere it shouldn't be.

@fromeden

Well there are 2 ways to see it. The first suggests that women fought for toilets as a way to enter the public sphere - and the at the time, given the relative status of the genders within society, desperate ones were the only option, thus the battle able to be one.

The other way to look at it is that the very idea of separating men and women is a way of reinforcing the otherness and thus lesser status of women.

You interpret it as you wish; I will do the same.

But there’s an interesting line in this article that points out that single sex spaces used to be pervasive - women’s only waiting rooms etc - yet they have fallen by the wayside (I would argue for the better). The only places where these gender separated places still exist aren’t countries where women are known for being treated with equal respect as men.

www.livescience.com/54692-why-bathrooms-are-gender-segregated.html