To not feel happy with gender neutral toilets at work?

[BalletBunting]

My company has recently relabelled all toilets on my floor as 'gender neutral'. As well as being rather confused as to what the need is for them (there are no trans people at my work as far as I'm aware) I don't like them, and I would prefer to keep the ladies loo as is. The nearest women's toilets is 3 floors up now!

I don't really feel comfortable going to the loo knowing that there are men in there but I don't really know how to bring this up and with who. I work for a large media company, fairly young/progressive and I don't want to cause trouble for myself.

There was also absolutely no consultation regarding the change. If anyone has been in a similar situation and managed to come to a different solution? Or AIBU and should drop it?

Honestly this makes me a little cross. My company has come along way in recent years in regards to equality. We have woman on the board, as directors and in many senior roles and they are finally been given similar opportunities to their male colleagues. We have shared use toilets . ( always have had for logistical reasons) and if a new female member of staff complained because she was uncomfortable peeing in a locked enclosed cubicle and then having to wash her hands in front of her male colleagues .. I'd be allergic. To me it makes females sound irrational delicate creatures who need privacy to 'powder their noses and have their inevitable crying fits..

I'm a wheel chair user and all my toilets everywhere are used by both men and women... I can't see the fuss tbh.

But disabled toilets are always separate and lockable. Most toilets that are being made unisex aren't just a standalone toilet. I think what I would have issue with is being in a toilet with shared basin area. I'd happily go in the lockable cubicle but I wouldn't feel safe as a lone woman in an open shared area with men in there. At work, fine, you'd hope then you worked with weren't sexual offenders but not in a public toilet. Nope. No way.

I went to a club a few years ago with men's loos on the left, women's on the right and a shared adjoining basin area. I've never felt so uncomfortable coming out of the loo to wash my hands.

My workplace has always had gender neutral toilets (built c2013). Don’t see the problem really. I don’t agree that men are more gross, smellier or messier than women in general. I think both sexes are capable of those flaws. There are no women-only toilets in the building.

We have them in at my workplace. I was a bit hmm, are first, but I think they're great. Fully enclosed including sink, great lighting, sensor operated taps and sanitary disposal bins, what's not to like? Also useful for getting changed in if going out straight after work. So, it's a yep from me.

I posted upthread without giving an example, but have just remembered the example I read recently. Book-keeping used to be an incredibly long and laborious job -- every time a figure was changed you had to go and rub out other figures and change them too. Took a great deal of manpower.

The spreadsheets were invented, and overnight there was no call for the number of bookkeepers who had existed. The job became quick and easy. The number of bookkeepers employed fell by at least half. Can't remember the figure.

However - now book-keeping was easy all of a sudden it was possible to store loads of data and do all sorts of exciting things with the data. Enter the data scientist - a whole branch of computer science which wouldn't have existed without the spreadsheet and database.

So technology takes jobs, but it also creates new ones.

Oops - wrong thread!

what about the men who fancy "private chats" in the toilet they'll also be losing out

I think they could chat if they want to

I just don’t think they want to

But the OP has shared sinks.

Honestly this makes me a little cross. My company has come along way in recent years in regards to equality. We have woman on the board, as directors and in many senior roles and they are finally been given similar opportunities to their male colleagues. We have shared use toilets . ( always have had for logistical reasons) and if a new female member of staff complained because she was uncomfortable peeing in a locked enclosed cubicle and then having to wash her hands in front of her male colleagues .. I'd be allergic. To me it makes females sound irrational delicate creatures who need privacy to 'powder their noses and have their inevitable crying fits..

Thank fuck ..... the voice of reason!

👏

We should be working towards the erosion of things that make women need or feel they need boundaries.

Yes we should, absolutely. Why don’t you crack on with that, and we’ll let you know when you’ve been so successful that we don’t need boundaries any more?

Re “some women on MN just don’t like men”. It’s very obvious from this thread that some women on MN just don’t like or respect other women. The arrogance and lack of empathy being shown by some here in dismissing other women’s feelings as silly is astonishing and deeply unpleasant. Still, I’m sure your woke dude buddies will give you an approving pat on the head, and that’s what matters, isn’t it.

Well according to a study conducted by researchers at LSE, one major advantage is that it reduces waiting times for women (whilst slightly increasing it for men), without major architectural changes required. So one could argue that as workplaces become more equally mixed, gender neutral toilets actually improve things for the female workforce.

So that’s one good reason.

Another I can think of is that it makes it more comfortable for people who identify as a difference gender. And making marginalised people more comfortable is a nice thing for society to do.

Another reason is that separating genders and their body functions can lead to weirdness about the body functions. Whereas making it totally commonplace to (gasp!) hear someone changing their tampon can only be a good thing for removing the shame surrounding menstruation.

So that’s 3 reasons.

Honestly this makes me a little cross. My company has come along way in recent years in regards to equality. We have woman on the board, as directors and in many senior roles and they are finally been given similar opportunities to their male colleagues. We have shared use toilets . ( always have had for logistical reasons) and if a new female member of staff complained because she was uncomfortable peeing in a locked enclosed cubicle and then having to wash her hands in front of her male colleagues .. I'd be allergic. To me it makes females sound irrational delicate creatures who need privacy to 'powder their noses and have their inevitable crying fits..

Finally some sense!!!

Finally some sense!!

Did you not think you were making sense?

The reason we have unisex toilets at work is because that's how it was when the organisation took the building over. As we're in the not-for-profit sector, there was no money to change it even if management wanted to.

I was wondering how men felt about sharing bogs with women so I asked DP. He said he'd bloody hate it. I asked why, and he said he didn't want to get his cock out to piss in front of female colleagues.

For a clever man, he can be very dense, so I explained that the urinals would be gone and he would pee into a lavatory, in a cubicle, like we do. He still said he'd hate it, but couldn't really express why.

He also said that male colleagues don't use the bogs for private, gossipy chats. He tried to imply that men don't have private, gossipy chats, but I know different.

The arrogance and lack of empathy being shown by some here in dismissing other women’s feelings as silly is astonishing and deeply unpleasant.

You are right. I am not empathetic towards the women moaning about not being able to have a girly gossip in the toilet, applying make up next to a man, having their wee overheard or god forbid having to see a man wash his hands

We have shared use toilets . ( always have had for logistical reasons) and if a new female member of staff complained because she was uncomfortable peeing in a locked enclosed cubicle and then having to wash her hands in front of her male colleagues .. I'd be allergic.

You'd be "allergic"?

You are right. I am not empathetic towards the women moaning about not being able to have a girly gossip in the toilet, applying make up next to a man, having their wee overheard or god forbid having to see a man wash his hands

What about survivors of rape and sexual assault?

Do they have to identify themselves to you on an individual by individual basis?

Will you be empathetic then?

Could you not leave them their anonymity and exercise some imagination?

Another I can think of is that it makes it more comfortable for people who identify as a difference gender. And making marginalised people more comfortable is a nice thing for society to do.

Yes women, budge over and give up your single sex space. It's the nice thing to do.

Give me fucking strength.

By the way, toilets haven't been separated by gender, they have been separated by sex.

I don't want to share with blokes, however they 'identify'. Why do my feelings on this count for fuck all?

Honestly this makes me a little cross. My company has come along way in recent years in regards to equality. We have woman on the board, as directors and in many senior roles and they are finally been given similar opportunities to their male colleagues. We have shared use toilets . ( always have had for logistical reasons) and if a new female member of staff complained because she was uncomfortable peeing in a locked enclosed cubicle and then having to wash her hands in front of her male colleagues .. I'd be allergic. To me it makes females sound irrational delicate creatures who need privacy to 'powder their noses and have their inevitable crying fits..

I probably feel a bit like this but, the point remains that it DOES bother people and that has to be valid.

(I think most men are already aware that the other 50% of the population have periods though. And the less mystery around it the better. But I know it's not a popular view!)

Men are pretty disgusting in a toilet. Pee all over the place and don't handwash. Generalisation I know but my experience. I would refuse to use a mixed loo

It makes it more comfortable for people who have changed gender.
But feelings and comfort don't matter. I thought that was what people had been telling women on this thread. Women are saying that they are uncomfortable but who cares. Transwomen say they are uncomfortable and bugger me we can't have that. I wonder what the difference could be.

We don't know who anyone is on these threads and what their agendas are, tbh.

Suffice to say I think in real life women should be listened to in real workplaces about their legally permitted single-sex spaces.

@RubberTreePlant what a ridiculous assumption to jump. Of course im fucking empathetic to sexual abuse victims. I even said in my posts on this thread that the risk of sexual assault is a valid reason not to have the mixed toilets. Please RTFT before you go around making accusations like that.

For years, basically since women were allowed 'out' in public life, certain areas have been segregated by sex. And people of both sexes have been happy enough with it.

Why the change now?

But feelings and comfort don't matter. I thought that was what people had been telling women on this thread. Women are saying that they are uncomfortable but who cares. Transwomen say they are uncomfortable and bugger me we can't have that. I wonder what the difference could be.

Exactly. It's certainly.... interesting isn't it?