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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Ex left his job to retrain as a doctor - no maintenance

285 replies

Childmaintenancechaser · 30/05/2019 12:59

My ex had a well paid corporate job (between £120K - £150K at various times). Arranging child maintenance was a struggle, for a long time the level was set at £51 / week for two children for reasons I cannot fully understand (he has limited contact, by choice). Childcare fees were not accepted by the CMS as something he has a duty to contribute to either. I had to return to full time work with two under two, and am still deeply in debt accrued at that time.
Now he finally has a job where he is employed in the UK and his full earnings are under PAYE and thus visible to the HMRC. And... I have just received an official letter from him that he is quitting his current job in order to retrain as a medical doctor and not planning to be in paid employment at least for the next six years. He's in early 50s, and both our children are still under 5.
I don't even know what my AIBU is. AIBU to think that if one has enough funds to get through the medical school, it has to be taken into account for the child support calculation? AIBU to be very jealous at him for having this freedom to do as he wishes?

OP posts:
Foxmuffin · 30/05/2019 16:04

YANBU and your situation is truly shit.

I do struggle with the notion that CMS should be paid out of savings though. Theoretically CMS has been deducted already from when it was income, so it’s like being taxed twice.

I don’t dispute this man should be supporting his children though.

jay55 · 30/05/2019 16:10

Kids don't pause needing a roof over their heads or clothing when the parent chooses to not work.
It's not like being taxed twice, it's paying your share by any means possible.

Xenia · 30/05/2019 16:10

The rules are so unfair. My ex was paid a huge sum by me on the divorce - more than 50% although we both work ful l time (I earn more) and no maintenance as the order says whoever they live with pays except I must pay school and university fees whoever they live with. He chooses just about never to see the children too. They ar big now but when they were little we had silly situations of him having 8 weeks summer holiday from his private school, I took 1 week unpaid from my work for our annual holiday and paid someone for 7 weeks to look after them even though their father was free all summer.

Perhaps we should change the law to force fathers to have the children half the time unless the parents or court disagree. If these men aren't prepared to pay a penny then the least they can do is the children's washing, sick clearance, night waking and all the rest.

I was looking at some death notices from 1906 of my great granny's death today. She had useless drunken husband and had to go out to work to support the 10 children. Tings were so bad that by the time she died she had moved to the next town and her husband is not even mentioned on the funeral notice even 8 of the children and her sisters are. I thkn that sums it up - you might well lose out from these feckless men at the time but longer term your relationships with your children and family are going to be heaps better than the non paying, non caring for children men. The absent men are the ultimate losers in this.

TooTrusting · 30/05/2019 16:11

It's a shame you didn't have legal advice when he was officially classed as overseas resident. The court would then have acquired jurisdiction over the CSA/CMS and would have made a more realistic order.

The court also acquires jurisdiction over CMS where DF has gross income of over £156k pa which would result in a maximum assessment.

If the court acquires jurisdiction the relevant legislation is in Schedule 1 of the Children Act.

The legislation allows the court to award maintenance at an amount which takes into account the reality (ie much better than CMS Lala land).

Even if the court has no jurisdiction over maintenance, it can still award you lump sums. Eg if one of the DCs has a specific need, if you need a new car to drive them round in but can't afford due to no maintenance etc. Please go and get some proper legal advice. You may be able to apply for a lump sum. But it must be from someone experienced in Schedule 1 (eg where I am from (S Wales) I seem to be the only solicitor who knows about it, although 's hardly obscure).

Melroses · 30/05/2019 16:12

I heard exactly this speech several times, starting from when he left for OW who was his "dream" at that time.

Does he have many "dreams"?

swingofthings · 30/05/2019 16:15

He is doing a foundation year which he'd have to do since his degree is in an unrelated field and his A levels probably so too and taken too long ago to get into a programme. Getting into a foundation course does NOT in anyway means he will be accepted onto the course next year. Competition will be tough, hell have to take entry exams that are very hard.

I would just stay still and see where it takes him because it might not be at all what he expects. The foundation year is the easy part.

ineedaknittedhat · 30/05/2019 16:17

Training to be a doctor in his early 50s? If it's true, which it probably isn't, the workload will kill him 😂

Foxmuffin · 30/05/2019 16:18

@TooTrusting

Am I right in my interpretation of your post that as OP’s husband is under the earning threshold the court won’t be able to acquire jurisdiction in this instance?

canyoubeserious · 30/05/2019 16:19

What an appalling, selfish and immature man. So sorry that you have to manage absolutely everything yourself.

I'm surprised to read that medical students accept people in their early 50s on to medical courses, people who will be nearly 60 at graduation. It's not the job for a person of that age in my opinion and I doubt he will want to be subordinate given what you have said about him and his previous employment. Perhaps his 'dreams' might change rapidly once he has more grasp on the reality of a medical degree and job.

poopypants · 30/05/2019 16:20

sincethereis you miss the point. The ex has responsibilities to his dc. If he can not afford to pay for them then he can not afford to stop working to go to uni. Once you have dc, you are not in a position to make decisions that mean you abandon your dc. If we all did this, who would pay for dc? Hey, lets all just stop working and let the state pay for our dc......

YouBumder · 30/05/2019 16:20

Once again, that would be discriminatory based on age.

It might also be able to be objectively justified on the basis of the costs involved in training doctors and the expectation you will get a reasonable return on that. A 50-odd year old man going to medical school is beyond ridiculous.

Original poster
Childmaintenancechaser · 30/05/2019 16:20

@TooTrusting
I got limited legal advice at that time, but the legal costs of pursuing enforceable overseas maintenance through REMO were just extortionate and probably would have offset any moneys awarded by the court. I started the process slowly as litigant in person, but then the ex moved back to the UK before the first hearing date (which took more than a year to get a date for too, the court was deciding whether they have jurisdiction in this case or not for ages).

OP posts:
daisypond · 30/05/2019 16:22

I’ve known two people start medicine courses in their 50s. And they’re quite happy to be subordinate- as you would be starting from scratch on a new career.

Sofasurfingsally · 30/05/2019 16:24

I'm not sure I think it's reasonable for him to train as a doctor, equally a t or not. He will barely work in the profession, so the public purse will pay for his training. Not that he sounds the sort to care.

stucknoue · 30/05/2019 16:24

Not sure this can be true - most medical schools will not take applications for students over 40, and 30 is a recommended maximum age because of the training period.

DixieFlatline · 30/05/2019 16:31

Getting into a foundation course does NOT in anyway means he will be accepted onto the course next year. Competition will be tough, hell have to take entry exams that are very hard.

I'm pretty sure being accepted onto the degree programme 'Medicine with a foundation year' means you're there for the whole thing, provided you keep passing your exams. It exists as something separate to individual foundation/access courses some people take while applying to start a degree afterwards.

canyoubeserious · 30/05/2019 16:35

I'm sure that some people in their 50s are perfectly happy to be subordinate. Not sure this man would be though. @daisypond-It isn't quite clear whether your friends on the medical courses have actually started work though or are just studying.

It isn't age discrimination not to accept someone in their 50s on to a medical degree course. It makes no financial sense. They are likely to only work for the NHS for 5-10 years, possibly even less. There are many specialties that are unlikely to be suitable for someone in their 60s due to age related changes. Despite tuition fees, the course is heavily subsidised by tax payers. It makes sense to only accept people on to this course who are likely to justify this high level of subsidy. Given the competition for places, overall, it makes no sense.

prh47bridge · 30/05/2019 16:40

Not sure this can be true - most medical schools will not take applications for students over 40, and 30 is a recommended maximum age because of the training period

Amazing that people keep posting this rubbish. Medical schools are subject to the Equality Act. They cannot discriminate on age. If they refused applications from students over 40 they would be breaking the law.

BlueSkiesLies · 30/05/2019 16:43

Hes a massive twat, but what can you do about it? Nothing. Just let everyone know what a total fuckface he is.

The CM system in this country for getting NRP to pay is totally broken.

And I am constantly amazed by the lengths (mainly men) go to avoid paying for their mini-DNA creations.

Itsnotmesothere · 30/05/2019 16:45

I can't believe how common it seems that some men will do anything to avoid paying for their children. Even those in well-paid jobs! It's so scummy.

YANBU to be jealous. His letter about helping people is very ironic. He could try caring for his children. He sounds like a psychopath to me.

Iris1654 · 30/05/2019 16:48

It’s disgraceful, the law is hugely flawed!

If he has savings, then yes, you should apply for consolidation of maintenance. See a solicitor.

Personally I think maintenance should be like a bank account, the money still gets paid and the debt sits on the account.
I think the CMA would be a lot better at collecting...like HMRC or council tax. ( because everyone know you don’t fuck with them) we would see Changes to the system then.

Sorry for you OP.

agnurse · 30/05/2019 16:49

YANBU.

It's one thing for him to want to pursue a new career. Nothing wrong with that in principle. It's quite another thing for him to neglect his children while doing so.

Parents who have their children living with them aren't exempted from feeding and providing for their children just because they are in school full-time.

I'm sorry, OP.

Flamingnora123 · 30/05/2019 16:53

This is so awful. Who are all these cretins who don't want to pay towards their own children's upbringing, development and happiness? All this weasling out of it. Can you even imagine wanting to get out of supporting your own children in any way??
He's an absolute fucker and one day your children will appreciate everything you've done and I have no doubt he will die a miserable, lonely old bastard.

PaddyF0dder · 30/05/2019 17:00

As a lot of people have said, that’s too old to start training to be a doctor.

I’m a doctor by the way.

So, minimum 5 years undergraduate. He’ll be 56 when he qualifies. Assuming he doesn’t intercalate or need to resist any years.

58 when he finishes foundation.

Assuming he goes into speciality training (most do), he’s got minimum 6 years (often more; depends on specialty). So he’ll be hitting retirement around the time that he’s completing his training.

What a waste of time. What a waste of expense. What a waste of a training opportunity.

NoBaggyPants · 30/05/2019 17:11

@PaddyF0dder No less of a waste than someone who trains and then goes to work abroad, or a woman who leaves within a few years to have and raise children. You can't stereotype someone according to a (protected) characteristic.