To be deeply disappointed in John Cleese

[drspouse]

I have no idea if this is typical but he just tweeted that London isn't an English city any more
What is it then pray tell? What's not English about it??

No you don't get my point they have tick boxes for white Welsh Scottish ect but not for white English

I don't know why this is, as they do have white Irish etc. I hate those forms with a passion. Despite being born in England, having children born in England, I can only tick Black or mixed or other British.

I feel it's omitted on purpose so that people like me can't tick it

that is so not what Cleese was saying at all

This is what Cleese originally said:
"I had a Californian friend come over two months ago, walk down the King's Road and say to me 'well, where are all the English people?'.

It is very similar to the Romanian colleague example I pointed out above. above. A very ignorant, rude and racist point. I walk down the King's Road. His Californian friend could have seen me.

Also, I went to a primary school where the majority of us had "English as a second language". (I cannot converse in any other language apart from English). No other languages were spoken at all apart from English. We all spoke English (as fluently as one can in primary) to each other.

What people don't understand is that if you have English as a second language, that in most cases does not mean the child cannot speak perfect English.I also suspect labelling children in that way means the school gets more money. It makes me laugh - you would have got bullied/ostracised for speaking another language other than English at my school.

*My aunt is a head in a London primary and only 2% have English as a first language.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I love the multicultural feel of the UK but it's naive to suggest everyone speaks English.*

Almost all those children, except very recent arrivals, will speak perfect English. Many of them will identify as British when they are older (assuming they have a right to British nationality). "Not speaking English" is really only an issue for older first generation immigrants, just as "not speaking French/Spanish" is an issue for many first generation British migrants in those countries but not for their children.

As for translating ... this is a choice. In Europe it's comparatively rare to see translated materials available in publicly funded organisations. (I'm not saying that providing translations is a bad thing - it is excellent public service. But many other countries with a large immigrant population do not feel under any obligation to do this.)

At George’s Day events in Trafalgar Square last month

“White English' was asked to be removed as it seemed inappropriate.”

Was asked by who? Inappropriate in what way?

HelpMeFindAName going back to my example of no one speaking English around me from earlier, maybe John's friend is referring to this and not a lack of 'white' faces. And no, schools don't get money for labelling children EAL .
Mistigri you are dead wrong. Very few of these children come in with lots of English. As I have already stated, I have many, many children coming in who have no English despite being born and raised here, many with older siblings who were also born here! When they start, our form asks them whether the child has any English and what language they speak. Many say they only speak their 'home' language to them. The later stages of the early years curriculum requires evidence in English; this affects each of the 7 areas of the curriculum. Therefore a child who has no language is behind as we can't get that evidence. Bright ones will catch up in KS1. The rest will stay behind.

“One sees the 'you know he wasn't English, don't you?' here on Mumsnet whenever anyone starts a thread about St George 's Day. ”

Well, it is quite funny when people go on about how important being “native English” is, and having “ and English blood” and wanting to tick an “ English” box, while venerating a very Unenglish saint.....

Eliza

Well, the figures apply to Inner London as a whole. Don't know if they've broken it down to individual boroughs, which may have specific probs with individual ethnicities.

They're certainly borne out by my experience in Lewisham - not exactly a leafy white suburb. It was notable that some of our best performing pupils - Oxbridge entrants - came as refugees from Iran, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, etc, who arrived at primary stage speaking no English.

But there wasn't one dominant group - and the majority of our black British were 2nd/3rd generation Londoners from the Caribbean.

I wouldn't like to live in a ghetto, either. But that's not diversity.

Why does it matter WHO a country chooses as their Saint? The issue is about celebrating their chosen person as part of their culture. That is what is being oppressed. The who doesn't matter at all.

St Patrick's Day get a huge fuss in the papers and pubs etc in the lead up and on the day. At George's Day is lucky if it gets a mention on page 20.

He is quite old-fashioned and was pro-brexit. If you watch his old stuff - as much as I love it it's pretty dated...

He doesn't even live in London so was a real shame really. Just racist old man sydrome I think :(

The whole st George and flag has been hijacked by the far right. We have never really celebrated st George, Andrew or David all that much. St Patrick’s day parades etc started in America (hence its larger than life execution).

@Eliza - you do realise St George wasn't English but an immigrant? Jeez.

@Eliza9919 did you see my link to the St George’s Day events in Trafalgar Square this year?

Neither was St Nicholas English, but one doesn't see the same comments about 'Santa' when December rolls around.

Because it is commercialised bollocks. No one with a few brain cells cares enough. That is why Santa is aimed at CHILDREN.

Apologies as it seems half of the country finds that 'b' word the most offensive word in our dictionary at the moment...

No one thinks st Nicholas was English do they?

I remember standing with a family member in Foster Square in Bradford underneath a display of lights saying “Merry Christmas” and being told in all earnestness that we weren’t allowed to publicly celebrate Christmas any more.

I’ve watched a child of mine in a St George’s Day parade every Sunday-closest-23rd-April for the past 18 years.

When they start, our form asks them whether the child has any English and what language they speak. Many say they only speak their 'home' language to them. The later stages of the early years curriculum requires evidence in English;

mookie, again using my family as an example: my two older DCs were consistently in the top literacy group at school by Y2. The eldest is now attending a British uni, as are most of his other bilingual friends by the way. Kids have an instinctive need to adapt to their surroundings and they clock pretty quickly that language is the tool to do that. Asking the health visitor recently about this (with regards to my youngest), she absolutely encouraged me to stick to the one language rule at home as that's the only way children absorb the minority language. That's NHS advice.

I think really you just don't like teaching foreigners; you only see them as a burden. Perhaps in some ways your job is harder, but it's sad for the kids as despite your best efforts they will probably feel it and be even less likely to warm to your language as a result.

I'm not a part of the 'we can't celebrate Christmas' brigade.

Doesn't mean that John Cleese is wrong.

I think really you just don't like teaching foreigners; you only see them as a burden. Perhaps in some ways your job is harder, but it's sad for the kids as despite your best efforts they will probably feel it and be even less likely to warm to your language as a result.

And now we're back to accusations of racism again

It’s quite normal for bilingual families to have a home language and an outside language. My Spanish/English nieces and nephews do this. I don’t understand the problem.

@LonelyTiredandLow Fri 31-May-19 08:16:52
@Eliza - you do realise St George wasn't English but an immigrant? Jeez.

He was Turkish apparently. And what's your point?

Yes @hilbo never their fault or their parent's. You'll probably guess what thought crossed our minds in relation to the apparent exodus and the handwringing reporting.

No finding out about what other communities in the area had experienced.

Oh piss off songs.
You obviously have very bright kids.
You aren't a teacher so with no due respect, I'm not interested in your anecdotal evidence of 2 children when I've spent 13 years teaching hundreds. I love the kids I teach (most of them ) but it saddens me when many of them struggle more than they should because their parents don't expose them to the language of the country they were born and raised in, whether that be through choice or because the parents are unable to speak English (which is a problem).

I thought he was from what is central Russia. Isn’t there a few St. George’s anyway? No dragon though.