To go arghhhhhhhhhh 🤬🤬🤬🤬

[Notsureabouthis]

At my 14 year old!

He has his end of Year exams coming up. next week. Off on half term this week. He’s said he’ll do 3 sessions of studying a day, no more. Ok, that seemed all right but not brilliant.

He is just so argumentative! He wants to play Fortnite when he isn’t studying. Says he’ll play on the PS4 first thing then study after lunch. Every evening I’ve been making him write down exactly what and when (times) he’s going to work in the next day. But then he went out with friends instead this afternoon. We’ve now just had a big row as he was wanting me to help with his French oral prep this afternoon so I’ve been waiting to do that with him on my day off. His friends were out in the garden and he just came in and said I’m going on the PS4 now, I’ve hardly played today (which is untrue). I’ve just lost my temper with him and so he said he’d do some French revision but not with me!

Just really grrr at his entitled attitude. PS4 first, then mates then maybe a bit of work if I nag him!

Feel like chucking the PS4 out of the window. I know there will be WW3 if I remove it! He is very good at feeling hard done by.

Advice?! Solidarity? My older one was hard work but never this stroppy and disrespectful.

Ok. I think you need to chill a bit, you seem a bit over invested here. My son is fine. He’s not been “punished”. We’re having a break from technology that’s all. He’s going to focus on getting his work done in the morning then meet friends (real life ones) in the afternoon. All good stuff. He’s cool with it. The PS4 will be returned after a few days if he’s doing what he needs to do.

Just remember there’s a real person at the other end of the keyboard. A little bit of empathy wouldn’t go amiss.

Haha, OP you so need to ignore that person, operant conditioning is a very real and very effective method of parenting and instilling good behaviour - so don't worry.

I think your proposed course of action is the correct one. I wish my parents had pulled me away from the draw of computer games a bit more. You sound like you really care and want to set him up for the best future, and that's never a bad thing.

Boys have a testosterone surge at 14! It makes it a challenging age 💐

I would've done the same thing. I've said to my children many times that our relationships are more important than a console and if the console is causing problems in the family then it goes.

I have a child the same age, and yes they have to own their own education at this age, but they haven't got the brain development that helps with things like impulse control and making decisions for the future. I like to call it 'scaffolding' - I'm not doing the work for them, but I'm giving support so that they can succeed. One way to do that is to manage distractions that they don't have the maturity or self control to manage (take away/limit electronics). One way is to help them set up good study habits and hold them accountable.

Good luck!

We only allow consoles Friday evening after school until Sunday evening during term time and after dinner and weekends in school holidays. It's always been the same so they know there's no point in arguing about it.

In your case I would be allowing the PS4 in the evenings if he had studied during the day in school holidays.

Have you considered a carrot and stick approach.

You have your stick outlined, but is there a really good carrot?

With mine, results were tied to an event they really wanted to go to. For instance GCSE was tied to Reading/Leeds festival.
They had to get their results or they didn't go. How they got there was up to them, but I was happy to provide any resources they needed (books, tutors, endless driving to and from the library).

From that exercise my youngest one, who had always putzed around with revision, discovered the joy of going into an exam fully revised and became the poster boy for A level revision.

Is there something that he wants to see/go to/have that everyone at school (who doesn't have mean parents) is going to/seeing/getting?
Find the object of desire and you have another tool in your arsenal.

I think you sound like a fabulous Mother..

The main reason computer games 'cause so many problems' is because of whiny, interfering adults who insist on trying to control their children's use of technology, because the adults don't understand the technology, don't know why gaming is enjoyable

My gaming started with a 128 Spectrum in 1986. Since then I have had an Atari ST (Gods, Resolution 101), PC (Final Fantasy series), PS2 (Final Fantasy again) Xbox (Skyrim, Minecraft, Portal 1 and 2), and PS4 (No Man's Sky, Little Big Planet 3, Child of Light). I'm tossing up now as to whether to buy the PS4 VR set or hold off and see what comes out with the PS5. I've spent about 400 hours on No Man's Sky in the last three years. I am a gamer. I love that stuff, and like most gamers, I could happily sit at the PS4 for 12 hours at a stretch, only noticing the passing of time from how I have to keep adjusting the blinds to stop the glare on the telly. I also have a PhD, so I have done a shitload of exams. When I lived with my parents, I did all my studying outside the house because games were too much of a draw. When I did my PhD I had to write up at home on my computer so I put my save games onto a zip drive (yes, I'm an old gimmer) and gave it to my best mate with instructions not to give it back until I'd passed my viva.

I know exactly how enjoyable gaming is, and that's precisely why I watch my own and my kids' gaming exposure. There are other things in life that need to be done, like homework and exercise, and also, while it is possible to play with friends it's not the same as having face to face contact with people. You need to have a lot of self-discipline around gaming and I would suggest that the OP should be removing the burden of choice for her DS at this point and putting the PS4 away until his exams are over.

It’s true that gaming can be a great hobby. It’s also true that it can lead to sitting indoors, poor diet, never making any real friends, never doing any schoolwork, addiction and depression. It is neither good nor bad. It depends on the context.

Breakfast - there are huge amounts of research to show that behaviourist techniques are detrimental and very, very outdated.

I really like the balance on this thread, my kids are hooked on the Xbox and we've relaxed a bit in that we just kind of kept hitting against brick walls with it, but once we started reasoning, playing it with them and taking an interest but offering outdoorsy or family games (darts, the throw rings at a hook game, ludo, snakes and ladders, articulate) too things got a bit easier. It isn't all or nothing, it's bring a parent and constantly managing but adapting too. Saying that eldest is only 11 so i know its not going to always work!!Best of luck with it all OP, you're doing great

Ps toomuchtooold great post

Notsureabouthis - my DSS is similar, although a year younger than your DS. Not naturally interested in studying, when he does it he does it as fast as possible to get back to Fortnite, and so does a poor job at it. I check over his work and he's rushed it and got everything wrong.

PPs are saying end of Year 9 exams don't matter.... and that's true, in the long run the results don't, but I don't feel it's about the results. It's about young people learning how to learn - what are the techniques that work for them as individuals? What does self-discipline look and feel like? How do you practice it? How does your brain best retain information? It's not about the knowledge, it's about the process.

That's the one thing that DSS and I have found actually interests him - is using studying as a way of learning about himself.

We worked out that he doesn't focus in the afternoons - once lunch has hit his belly, his brain turns off. So mornings are study time - because his brain works better and in a more focused way, he gets his work done in less time and it sticks in his head better (which is a benefit for him to know, because then he gets more hours 'off' in the day).

We worked out that reading doesn't stick in his head - but explaining something to someone else cements it. Also he can't focus when he's sitting still - he has to move. So he walks laps around his room / connects ideas to locations around the house (Memory Palace-style, being in the hallway reminds him of the moment photosynthesis 'clicked' in his head, for example, and the living room curtains remind him of what he learned about Kandinsky) , and then comes and explains what he's learned to me in his own words.

We learned that short bursts with mini-rewards keeps him motivated, so he uses the Pomodoro technique now (25 minutes working, 5 minutes getting a juice or a snack, texting a friend, playing with the dog).

Don't get me wrong, he still would rather be on f$%^ing Fortnite every second of every day, and not everything is smooth sailing.

But by focusing on learning how to learn (and therefore get the adults off his back faster) we seem to be making progress faster.

I wonder if that might help you, too?

Wow thanks all. So interesting!!!

Ladybee28- you are an amazing , wow! Food for thought for me. Yes I do try to encourage active learning because he loves nothing more than lying in bed watching a history documentary on his laptop which is fine if he’s taking it in! Not sure he is though....

Another blow up this morning when he was caught sneaking his phone out. He was sheepish though and apologetic. It’s an addiction I think. Still a way to go but he’s made a plan for 3 sessions this morning so fingers crossed we’re on the right track.

Trying to juggle 3 kids and all this is hard work. At least my eldest is finally self motivated at 17! He is very disorganised though so still needs a bit of help.

I wonder if @ReanimatedSGB would have the same view if PS4 and gaming were replaced by alcohol and excessive drinking?

With my DD2 it's netflicks and constant reruns of Friends/Big Bang etc. Fortunately, she has a very high work ethic so it is less of a problem but I do still have concerns over the addictive element. Like the OP, we are trying to find ways of reducing the dependancy.

My DB has dyslexia and was telling me what a huge difference specialist glasses have made - something to do with prisims and focusing points. They weren't cheap, but might be worth exploring if you haven't already. I think it would have made a huge difference to his outlook and success in life if he'd had them at school. Back then though, dyslelxia wasn't as well recognised and the school refused to acknowledge there was an issue and he was just branded lazy and stuck in what was called the remedial class!

@MumW so your DD has a 'high work ethic' yet you are still trying to police her leisure activity?
The trouble is, this concept that enjoying yourself is somehow 'bad for you' and that your recreational choices have to be controlled and restricted... It's actually got more to do with keeping the lower orders in their place than anything else. Moral panics about different types of entertainment are always targeted at working class pleasures, because the lower orders need to be devoting their energy towards pleasing their 'betters', not having fun. This is where all the screen panic comes from, just like all the previous panics about television and popular music, and comics. Yes, some balance in life is necessary, but so is some logic. If you start with the idea that kids are entitled to use their leisure time as they see fit, rather than according to your idea of what a 'normal' kid should be doing, you'll get on better.

Not police as such but trying to encourage her not to be quite so dependant.

For example, we're watching a film together and I ask her to make a cup ot tea half way through. She will go into the kitchen with her phone and watch 5mins of a sitcom whilst she does it or when she pops to the loo or on a 5min car journey - the need to have it on constantly is surely not healthy. I have no problem with her using it to relax in her downtime. However, it might not impact on her studies, but often causes issues on the time it takes her to do things, such as getting ready for school in the morning, getting ready for bed at night and even on her ability to shutdown and go to sleep.

Enjoying yourself is not bad but being obsessed and seemingly unable to function without it, is. It's the addictive tendancy that is of concern.
It's got nothing to do with control, it's about encouraging healthy balances or, in the OP's case, removing the temptation to play during non-leisure time. Everything in moderation.

@notsureaboutthis - he will not be a lawyer if he hates studying and gets shit marks in exams and that is a fact.

Politician, perhaps - but one doesn’t need any particular qualifications to do that job.

Piglet - am I aware of that but thanks for pointing out the obvious See my reply above - it was a joke based on his superior arguing and negotiating skills. Hope he becomes neither as they seem quite a humourless bunch from my experience.

Animated - interesting post. You have a point. However I still think work first, play later is a good adage whatever that play may be. I tell you though when you’ve got three boys all trying to tell you what hilarious gag the latest you tuber has done, you’d rather they were into something higher brow too (class aside!)

There's a difference between enjoying yourself and addiction.

My kids are different people with restrictions on consoles. The idea that limiting screen time for kids and teens is bullying is completely absurd.

Well he's better than me!! 14 did you say? That's really young!! At 14 I did zero work in the holidays!!! (and I rarely did homework on school nights either!!) I'm 41 now and an academic! I didn't like learning or studying much til I was much older (post 18). He's 14, he's just being a normal teenager!!

Take the console away, sorted.

"All work and no play....." is seriously bad for you. I'd have given him a week of play and then studying in the afternoons. You can overdo it and then you're as likely to fail as you would be if you hadn't studied. If he worked hard in term time then I wouldn't worry much. These aren't GCSEs.

If he does badly, he'll pull his socks up - but only if he cares. If you push too hard he'll end up not caring.

@CrazyCatNerd Are you you able to show me this research please? Not being passive aggressive, my life's work so far involves direct psychological research in this exact thing and so I really disagree with you. Classical conditioning - yes, often outdated. Operant conditioning not so much. It's too broad in my opinion for you to make sweeping statements so I am interested in this huge amount of credible research I have missed!