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Original poster

To postpone holiday so 12yo doesn't come

84 replies

witsendhotel · 27/05/2019 11:20

NC for this.

I'm a single mum of a 12, 10 and 4 yo. 12 and 10 yo have an abusive dad that they see EOW and half the holidays. It's court ordered and numerous attempts to change contact have not been listened to. He's abusive towards me and emotionally abusive towards her.

We are booked to go away tomorrow, just an overnight seaside break.

12yo is challenging normally but has upped the ante lately. She constantly disobeys, argues, answers back, is rude, hits and kicks her 4 yo sibling (and has just hit the 10yo too). She is not allowed to watch youtube as a punishment for earlier issues but was watching it this morning. She tells bare faced lies several times a day. Really stupid lies where it's obvious it's her as it can't be anyone else. She's deliberately disgusting at the table so no one wants to eat with her, she is always in my room taking my things when she's been told no and to respect my space and belongings, used my bathroom, uses all the hot water purposely, helps herself to snacks when she's been told no, doesn't go to her music lessons but admits she'd not miss them if it was her dad paying Hmm and many more things.

I've had it with her. Nothing works regards consequences and I don't know how to handle her anymore. She's on the list for counselling at school but just blames everything on "things at daddy's"which she knows is no excuse to behave so badly.

I don't want to take her tomorrow. She usually spoils any trip out with her behaviour. My mum has refused to go anywhere with her now too. I could rebook it for later in the week when she's at her dad's but then her sister would miss out and ds would miss both of them.

I hate that I feel so negative towards her. I give her lots of positive attention when she's not acting up. She's a different child if she's one on one with me but due to circumstances that's very rare.

She's apparently NT but I suspect asd/add. She was referred but the gate keeper said she was fine and recommended the counselling.

I love her but I really don't like her and I hate feeling like that.

What can I do?!

OP posts:
bridgetreilly · 27/05/2019 11:29

I think not taking her would be the worst thing you could do. I know it's really really hard, and I'm sure it makes things horrible for everyone else, but this kind of behaviour is normal to some degree for all kids this age, and with her circumstances with her father, it's no surprise that it's much, much worse for her. BUT what she needs more than anything is someone in her life who doesn't emotionally manipulate her, and who she can trust always to love her. That's behind a lot of this kind of acting out - testing to see if you'll still love her.

Lifeisabeach09 · 27/05/2019 11:32

Can she stay with her dad?
I'd cut the music lessons if she isn't going.

maddening · 27/05/2019 11:36

I would think it is possible anxiety and mh issues caused by being abused by her dad who she is forced to have contact with - casting her out of the only positive family she has by excluding her from her family is the last thing you should do.

anothernotherone · 27/05/2019 11:37

That would be an awful thing to do for exactly the reasons bridgetreilly sets out.

Sadly she probably knows you don't like her, so you have to make very sure she also knows that you do love her, unconditionally.

She probably is unconsciously testing you, if you don't take her that's a massive, massive rejection. Only way it would be ok is if she doesn't know the night away is planned and won't know the plan's been changed.

Lifeisabeach09 why would you suggest more time with her abusive father?

meiisme · 27/05/2019 11:38

Yes, I agree with bridgetreilly. Children who are being or have been abused, emotionally or otherwise, tend to act out like this. It's horrible to live with but a normal reaction to people they depend on being horrible to them. So while it is hugely unfair that you are shouldering the brunt of her dad's actions, your also the dependable parent who needs to be there for here. Therapeutic parenting is helping loads for my similar DC. Check out the Facebook group. Lots of these techniques feel counterintuitive when you've got used to punitive measures. But the usual punishment based systems tend to not work for our DC, as you're seeing, and even make their behaviour worse.

Frittata · 27/05/2019 11:42

The last thing you should do. Having an abusive father is absolutely an excuse for behaving like that.

clairemcnam · 27/05/2019 11:42

She sounds very angry. However hard it is leaving her behind will not help and could make things worse.

Original poster
witsendhotel · 27/05/2019 11:43

Thank you for the replies.

There's no way I'd send her to her dad's. He's not usually around much when she's there and she's just left to game. More time with him is the last thing she needs.

I wouldn't not take her in all likelihood but she has to realise her behaviour is not ok.

I'm
Not on Facebook.

OP posts:
WorriedMami · 27/05/2019 11:45

You could:

She is not allowed to watch youtube as a punishment for earlier issues but was watching it this morning.
cut the wifi

She tells bare faced lies several times a day. Really stupid lies where it's obvious it's her as it can't be anyone else.
Call her out every single time

She's deliberately disgusting at the table so no one wants to eat with her,
take her food away if she won't eat nicely
get her to help prepare it

she is always in my room taking my things when she's been told no and to respect my space and belongings,
put a lock on the door

used my bathroom,
again, put a lock on the door

uses all the hot water purposely,
turn it off on her

helps herself to snacks when she's been told no,
lock them up or just don't buy any

doesn't go to her music lessons but admits she'd not miss them if it was her dad paying
stop paying or make her pay for each one she misses

but your first response is to cut her out of the family holiday? You need to be her constant. I love you but I don't like it when you behave like this, on repeat.

Yabbers · 27/05/2019 11:46

The last thing you should do. Having an abusive father is absolutely an excuse for behaving like that
Exactly. Court ordered or not, if visits to her father mean she is being emotionally abused, I wouldn’t be sending her.

Original poster
witsendhotel · 27/05/2019 11:49

If I had my way she wouldn't go but I've been threatened with being fined/unpaid work/prison if I breach the order. Protecting my daughter is not looked on favourably by the courts.

Pp, I've done most of those things except the locks. Nothing seems to work which is why I'm at my wits end. There comes a point where nothing is working and I don't want her spoiling things for us all.

OP posts:
greenlynx · 27/05/2019 11:50

You can’t leave her, it’s very unfair and will make things worse. I agree with PPs about cutting music lessons.
You answered your question yourself, she’s different child when she’s one to one with you but it’s very rare. She needs your attention and support. Apart from tricky age and EA dad I guess she also started secondary school this year so it’s quite a lot for her.

SchoolPanicTime · 27/05/2019 11:51

It sounds a struggle but I wouldn't leave her behind. She's obviously massively struggling with MH issues and she needs help. I would make getting her help number 1 priority. In the mean time she needs to feel accepted even when she's being incredibly challenging.

WorriedMami · 27/05/2019 11:53

Ok, what does she say about it?

You're going overnight. Can you send the others to bed early or let her stay up late so you can chat to her? Different place, maybe it would help break the cycle and she would be willing to talk.

meiisme · 27/05/2019 11:54

If you're not on Facebook you could buy the A-to-Z therapeutic parenting book by Sarah Naish or have a look at the website of the National Association of Therapeutic Parents. They have some resources online.

mabelmylove · 27/05/2019 11:56

You want to leave her with her abusive father while the rest of her family go on holiday? It sounds like she probably feels like she doesn’t fit in anywhere and is acting out because of it.

HepzibahGreen · 27/05/2019 11:57

At 12 surely she has a choice about seeing her dad? Does she want a relationship with him?
Anyway, I understand not wanting to take her. It's the knock on effect on you and your other children. I think that sometimes though we get what we expect, so deep breath, smile and big positive happy attitude. Tell her you are really looking forward to the break and all the fun things you are going to do. Reminisce with her, as the eldest, about past holidays, things that only she might remember.
Try to start a clean slate. It's so easy to slide into resentment about past crimes, but ultimately (ime) the ability to move past things and act as though you fully expect your dc to be delightful is both the hardest and the most effective strategy.
FlowersBrewCake

SmileEachDay · 27/05/2019 11:57

He's abusive towards me and emotionally abusive towards her

If this is true then she should not be having unsupervised contact with him. Do her school know she is staying with an abusive parent EOW?

Why do you think she uses it as an excuse? You left him, presumably because he’s an abusive bastard, but she still has to see him EOW. She needs help with this, not pushing further away.

If you report the abuse to school, they may be able to support you with referrals to the appropriate services - or you could refer yourself. I would be recording every single incident.

What can you do about ensuring your girl is safe?

DointItForTheKids · 27/05/2019 11:59

It sounds like she needs therapy and support - poor kid. She's acting out. As unpleasant and unacceptable as it it, how shit must it be for her to have to keep going to her dad's who clearly doesn't even spend time with her when she's there and/or is abusive (not your fault OP, the family court's are a bloody joke). But she needs someone to talk to - at the moment the only way her distress, anger and just plain trying to deal with this is coming out as aggression to her siblings and deliberately obnoxious behaviour. Just punishing is nowhere near enough - she needs help. Undoubtedly as is the case with EVERY child, she'll be framing this that there's some deficit in her that's the problem - not that her dad's a shit, it's all her fault.

I think, sorry, you sound like you're not that sympathetic (I guess that's borne of the ongoing and escalating nature of things that's totally worn you down) but you 'don't want her spoiling things'. I guess she doesn't want to go to her ad's every other weekend and be ignored/abused - but she doesn't have a lot of choice. What SUPPORT does she get with that?

Original poster
witsendhotel · 27/05/2019 11:59

@mabelmylove no, I would not leave her with her father. I've already said if I had the choice she wouldn't go there at all.

OP posts:
WorriedMami · 27/05/2019 12:01

He's abusive towards me and emotionally abusive towards her.

Does she know how he is/was towards you? Could it be that she thinks it's only happening to her and she's having difficulty accepting it is "normal" (because she has no point of reference, so is normal for her and she thinks she should be coping when it's not actually normal and she shouldn't have to cope) Could it be that with (approaching) puberty your ex is upping the level of emotional abuse towards her?

AriadnePersephoneCloud · 27/05/2019 12:03

We have a child who does some of these things. Not always to cause others problems but because he thinks he's right /in the right all the time. We now always take the modem to bed with us (unplugged) and all snack foods are locked up. The kids are used to it now and so are we. It's so upsetting when you don't like your children. I don't always like mine.but I expect they don't always like me either and I'm okay with that 😁

Aprillygirl · 27/05/2019 12:05

12 can be a difficult age at the best of times,but your poor dd is obviously full of so much anger she doesn't know what to do with it. Don't make that anger even worse by leaving her out of your trip,unless you can come up with an alternative. You say she's a different girl when it's just the two of you, so I think it would be lovely if you could give her some quality one on one attention she probably craves. Would it be possible for you and her to go somewhere overnight just the two of you at a later date? You could then word it like 'What do you reckon to you having a break from your annoying siblings and staying with nan this time, and then us girls having a break together in the summer holidays instead?' Turn it round to make her feel special rather than excluded.

Lifeisabeach09 · 27/05/2019 12:06

@anothernotherone, completely missed the bit about the abusive dad!

Hopeygoflightly · 27/05/2019 12:08

Her behaviour is horrible but she is a child and she is your responsibility. Leaving her at home would be the absolute worst thing you could do.
Can you afford a private counselling session, something quicker?
What's she watching Youtube on? Take away that device. On the telly? take the app off. Disgusting food habits? She prepares her own food and eats alone until she behaves at the table. Locks on your room and the bathroom.
You're losing control of her and she's clearly miserable and taking t out on her siblings. If she talks to the cousellor about abuse at her dad's that counselor can speak to it with her permission if no-one's believing her.

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