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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Dance photos of children

184 replies

GrandmaSharkdodo · 27/05/2019 09:14

I've had a violent reaction to a family members photos of her child and not sure if I'm just an old fuddy duddy. The girl is 13 and is a great dancer, competing at regional competitions. She's recently gone for some studio photos of her "dancing" and I think they are highly inappropriate and over sexualised. I know young teens often take risqué selfies as they want to look older, bit this was paid for and overseen by her mum. Obviously I can't and won't put the actual photos on here but this one is quite similar to one of them .. the photos are all over Instagram and are public. AIBU or is it a bit too much?

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 27/05/2019 11:23

I absolutely agree with DointItForTheKids - these are bad dance photographs, from someone who isn't sure what a dance photograph is for.

So the issue in my mind is not 'dance photographs', but 'photographs which purport to be about dance but aren't'

Bezalelle · 27/05/2019 11:24

Legally isn’t everything. A 13 year old has sexual emotions, and will want a photo shoot to reflect their growing desire to be attractive to whomsoever they find attractive.

This is the exact arguments paedos use to legitimise their activities.

cantkeepawayforever · 27/05/2019 11:26

Meh. Dancing is just like this.

I know a LOT of children who dance - through DD, through teaching, through watching DD in competitions for over a decade etc etc

No, dancing isn't 'just like this'.

SOME dancing in SOME places is like this - whether it is successful at getting these children into professional dance at the highest levels is a question.

userabcname · 27/05/2019 11:26

Yanbu. Very uncomfortable. Reminds me of an episode of Toddlers and Tiaras where one mum was trying to teach her 4yo to shake her "booty like a stripper". Bleugh. I don't know why it's seen as ok to sexualise little girls like this.

pikapikachu · 27/05/2019 11:27

Is there a boy dancer equivalent of these photo shoots?

herculepoirot2 · 27/05/2019 11:27

Bezalelle

True. Except that their “activities” involve abusing kids and mine involves allowing a 13 year old to wear a leotard and lie on the floor because it might make her happy. Not the same thing. Hmm

VirginiaWolfHall · 27/05/2019 11:33

Op YANBU. I work in education and the lengths we go to to protect our pupils online and through photography... then you look at photos like that which their own parents are happy to post on SM and wonder why we bother!

That was tongue in cheek btw.

But seriously, it’s madness that in this day and age when our awareness of child safety is more heightened than ever, people actually choose to do this. It’s like child protection doesn’t exist. And don’t get me started on the feminist argument...

cantkeepawayforever · 27/05/2019 11:33

Dancers train as much as other athletes and it's good to teach children disciplin, being a team player, confidence and a good way to keep fit.

There's always amusement and amazement when DD does the bleep test for fitness at school and comes way ahead of most of the 'known sports people'. She trains 10+ hours a week, whereas they tend to do many fewer.

The ability to stand on one leg, lean forward and stretch your arms out towards an opponent and then effortlessly twirl in that position turns out to be really useful in netball, too - not to mention run at full speed, stop neatly on the spot, stay poised for a moment and then set off in a different direction....

Festivecheer26 · 27/05/2019 11:38

Agreed. I can see why girls (and guys) leaving dance college looking for work need headshots, modelling shots and a portfolio of pictures. Children that age don’t need pictures of themselves “modelling” in skimpy outfits, hanging over walls or leaning on cars. Pictures showing dance/ acro skills are fair enough.

The dance school I was involved with hosted a photography company recently, though it was more photos of the kids in tutus/ lyrical outfits. In my view it’s just another needless expense for parents and another way to cause arguments and competition within the school. Some parents will fund it, some won’t and so their kids are upset to miss out. Some will allow the skimpy outfits, others won’t and are their kids get upset that their pictures aren’t as “good”. The ones who do get to pose in crop tops and pants then start commenting about the others not being allowed the same outfits as they’re too fat - nothing good can come of it.

DarlingNikita · 27/05/2019 11:39

A 13 year old has sexual emotions, and will want a photo shoot to reflect their growing desire to be attractive to whomsoever they find attractive

It's meant to be about their dance ability, not being sexual or 'attractive'. And yes, I know one of the functions of dance (any art) is to express sexual energy etc, but these are 13-year-olds. Some common sense has to be applied.

I'd be perfectly happy with a photo of a 13-year-old in, say, an arabesque, or in mid-air doing a jeté or something, but lying/sitting looking at the camera with mouth open and sultry eyes is not particularly showing off their dancing.

herculepoirot2 · 27/05/2019 11:41

DarlingNikita

I don’t really think it’s about dancing either. I don’t buy into this whole “it’s about” thing. A photo is about whatever the person posing wants it to be about. She wants to look attractive. She’s 13 - she will want to look attractive. As I have said, there are lines to be drawn, but I have no issue with the first image at all.

JurassicGirl · 27/05/2019 11:43

Pretty much agree OP.

My dd is 10 & dances (ballet & acro) & it's something I notice with other dance schools. Our school is very 'classical' which I love but there's another school about 10 miles away which has a 'cooler' reputation & they wear crop tops & hot pants. They're also more 'showy' which some of the kids seem to aspire to.

DarlingNikita · 27/05/2019 11:45

A photo is about whatever the person posing wants it to be about. She wants to look attractive.

It is supposed to be a picture showcasing her dance ability. That first image: if it was the end of a series of pics and made it clear that this was the end pose in a dance – I'd still feel it wasn't totally appropriate but at least it would be in context. As it stands, though, I agree that yes, it is primarily about her looking attractive. And that's the troubling part –she is 13 and it's a dance photo, not a beauty contest photo. Also, she may well want to look attractive but, at 13, she is very young to be making those kinds of decisions. You have to wonder what the parent(s) were thinking.

herculepoirot2 · 27/05/2019 11:48

DarlingNikita

A 13 year old beginning to want to look attractive really doesn’t worry me. The second photo, I would tend to agree. The first isn’t an issue. I’m not particularly prudish and I don’t expect teenagers to only ever wish to be photographed as a demonstration. They’re starting to express other desires and it doesn’t bother me, providing they aren’t actually being put at risk.

Butterpup · 27/05/2019 11:49

Pig pug “I think that's bit of a sweeping statement. Dance is first and formally a sport - either a team sport or an individual one. Dancers train as much as other athletes and it's good to teach children disciplin, being a team player, confidence and a good way to keep fit.”

This is where you are wrong, dance is not a sport, it is an art. The fundamental difference being that looks, for aesthetics purposes only, play no part in sport whereas in dance they are important.

Sport is first to cross the line whereas dance is subjective.

This is probably why another poster, rightly so, said her girls did netball and hockey.

The only important factor in sport is how good you are at it. Dance is very much swayed on looks and that is why you don’t get hockey/netball players in black lace 😂

ScottishDoll · 27/05/2019 11:53

Stop talking about children expressing desire ffs!

Glamour shots are not appropriate for children because they are aimed at sexualisation. Parents are the boss of children because they are the adults and supposed to know better!

herculepoirot2 · 27/05/2019 11:54

ScottishDoll

Why? It doesn’t make me uncomfortable, being a fact of life. I don’t see the first photograph as a “glamour shot” and think there are some real mountains being made of molehills here.

IvanaPee · 27/05/2019 11:57

Meh. Dancing is just like this.

Several posters, me included, have said our children’s dance schools aren’t like this.

IvanaPee · 27/05/2019 11:59

This is probably why another poster, rightly so, said her girls did netball and hockey.

What do you mean ‘rightly so’?

One is not better than the other. Netball isn’t more virtuous than ballet.

If we’re going by the clothes worn then it’s a bit hypocritical given the skirts that these girls have to wear. And for no good reason.

ScottishDoll · 27/05/2019 12:02

energeticsinstitute.com.au/articles/sexualisation-of-children/

Do some reading, it ought to make you uncomfortable.

herculepoirot2 · 27/05/2019 12:04

ScottishDoll

No thanks. I’m not in the habit of clicking on random links. As I have said, I don’t think there’s anything particularly “sexualised” about the horizontal image. It doesn’t worry me. Next.

Yabbers · 27/05/2019 12:06

The photo used isn't of the child in question it's just an example random one off google?
No, but it is a photograph of a teen, taken by a photographer who has been accused by several people, of assaulting teens and young women whilst photographing them.

Am I the only person who thinks it is strange that this photo is the only example available online and it just happens to be taken by a dodgy photographer?

ScottishDoll · 27/05/2019 12:10

From the article linked -

The children are often too young to understand the sexualized nature of the product, and often it is a sexualized or narcissistic parent wanting attention for themselves, who creates a “show pony” effect on their children, and effectively use the children to prop up their own low self esteem or egos. Retailers of such products defy challenge of their “right” to market such products, saying it is just “fun” or not to be taken seriously.

They dismiss the notion that such merchandise creates a normalization of a sexualized image in children, yet admit they have no psychological training or evidence to back-up or make such statements. In effect it is a lack of accountability to the consumer as regulations are geared to more tangible and physical safety and other guidelines, and only public outcry is having a change of heart on behalf of exposed, named and shamed retailers who sell such products.

The attack on childhood is never more constant, pushing the boundaries, or chasing new childhood markets, than ever before. Society is increasingly buying into this trend with a new generation of businesses now springing up to cater for children to go to Day Spas, Limousines and $1000 dresses to the teenage school balls, fashion parades, and adult theme experiences recreated for children as young as 5 years old and older.

Young teen women are presented with such sexualized adult role models as Kim Kardishan, Lady GaGa, Beyonce and Katy Perry from which to align their emerging sense of selves. Under peer pressure they are forced to conform to obtain acceptance from boys who also adopt the same sexualized expectations of girls from these same women role models.
...
The old saying that the person who grows up too soon spends the rest of their life as a child is full of wisdom. Parents cannot afford to adopt a victim stance and say it is all too hard or not their fault. Parents have the main responsibility in taking an active role in providing a measured and balanced view of the children’s self-worth, self-image, and the creation of healthy self-esteem where they can critically challenge the sexualized messages streaming through society.

herculepoirot2 · 27/05/2019 12:12

ScottishDoll

Thanks. I see the argument. I just don’t feel it applies to that image and a girl of that age. I’m totally on board with the general thrust of it.

Butterpup · 27/05/2019 12:14

“What do you mean ‘rightly so’?

One is not better than the other. Netball isn’t more virtuous than ballet.”

I never said anything was more virtuous, I said that one was an art and one was sport. I said one was open to opinion and the other was less so. One was more about image and the sport was not.