To move to Scotland because of Brexit?

[Fucksandflowers]

DH is seriously talking about it.

We’ve always liked Scotland anyway...

DH is English, but looks foreign and gets an astounding amount of racism, at least weekly.

Genuinely fearful of the apparent growth of right wing politics in this country, DH in particular is worried if Farage gets in the racism is going to get even worse.

Anyone who lives in Scotland, what is it like?
Are people generally tolerant?
Any areas that are particularly nice and too expensive?

in the last census, over 96% of respondents declared as White, so it is not a racially diverse country at all. Anti-English racism does exist. and increased dramatically during IndyRef (1). Scots talk about being independent and getting "back" into the EU. They are not IN the EU - the UK is, not Scotland on it's own, so they will have to apply.
In the Brexit vote, over a third of Scots voted leave so it's not exactly the "all of Scotland voted to stay" that is portrayed. In some areas, where agriculture and fishing are key industries, Remain won by the tiniest of margins. It is probably cheaper up here to buy a house or land, but we have higher rates of income tax.
Utopia it ain't.

Nor would I or, so far as i can see, many (any?) other posters in here. Was just pointing out that your claim that the Remain win in Scotland was 'narrow' is dubious.

I didn't say it was dubious, I said that polls before and after the referndum have aligned closely with Britian wrt to immigration etc, the OP is painting it as a Utopia and it has become a meme on MN to paint it as such.

Considering Scotland has less immigration than Britain its a paradox for an obvious ardent remainer such as OP, they are moving to a place where ~50% of the population think immigration is too high, add on the fact SNP could be losing seats next election and its on par with wanting to move to Australia with a points based immigration system because one of the key features of brexit was to end FOM.

It's a tired meme

I said that your claim, that it was a narrow Remain win in Scotland, was dubious.

I live in the West end of Glasgow which is fabulously diverse, tolerant and liberal. However.....I work in the NHS in a far less metropolitan areas where bigotry is rife and quite openly expressed. There are parts where union jacks and flute bands are the norm and the orange walk is a scourge we have to tolerate all summer. Sadly this section were mobilised highly visible during the independence referendum and unfortunately remain so.

I said that your claim, that it was a narrow Remain win in Scotland, was dubious.

OK, you ignore the overall message though, you won that's all that counts.

I've already said that I don't think Scotland is any less racist than the rest of the UK and is not a utopia. I just pulled you up on a statement that I believe is false (that Scotland is only narrowly for Remain). I don't know what you think we're arguing about.

We live in a Scottish city. I have an English accent and my dh is Maori. We have never experienced any racism/ anti English sentiment. We live in a very multi-cultural area though, I imagine that may make a difference....

If you live in Fife Edinburgh or Kinross areas you won’t get problems for being English because there are loads. Edinburgh is pretty multicultural, Fife not so bad Kinross quite white but it’s all so middle classed (obv depending on area) that there isn’t any noticeable racism. Maybe I am just lucky but I have not seen any.

Husband and kids with English accents have never received any abuse in Scotland and are regular visitors (second home really). I've never received abuse for my Scottish accent in a England either. Lots on non pc jokes - but no worries.
There are racist bigots everywhere - both sides of the border though. In Scotland they come out like orange Dracula's on 12 July. (though numbers are swelled by DUP supporters from NI, parading their shit in Scotland).

You are being ridiculous OP.

TeacupDrama's post summed it up well but to look at other points.

The Scottish talk of tolerance is much greater than the actual tolerance

I think that is true. As others have said 96% of people living in Scotland are white. The majority of them will live in Glasgow.

In the Brexit vote, over a third of Scots voted leave so it's not exactly the "all of Scotland voted to stay" that is portrayed. In some areas, where agriculture and fishing are key industries

I voted remain and would do so again but I am so fed up the narrow- minded, arrogant, lack of comprehension smuggery of remainers thinking they are morally superior to anyone who voted leave. Go and speak to voters in the fishing community.

Because it's only bigoted if it's aimed at the English. Scots are fair game. Fucking arseholes

On MN ? Are you joking? There are many posters on MN , like the OP, labouring under the delusion that Scotland is some sort of utopia and all Scottish people are lovely. I'd say it is the English who are fair game. On a personal level the indy supporting idiot who is married to my husband's brother (long way of avoiding saying sister-in-law) has no qualms about talking about "white settlers". My husband's indy supporting idiot brother (again to avoid calling him my brother-in-law) on first meeting me thought it was hilarious to mock my accent for not being Scottish enough (I was born in Aberdeenshire)

Education and policing in Scotland is in a shambles.

Education and policing in Scotland is in a shambles

Education and policing are in a shambles in England. (As is the Prison Service and NHS).

Edinburgh is pretty multicultural

Really because of the Festival and the Fringe and a large number of ethnic minority restaurants?

This is from the last census.

The highest figures were in the four council areas containing the large cities: in Glasgow City it was 12%, in the City of Edinburgh and in Aberdeen City it was 8%, and in Dundee City it was 6%.

I've lived in Edinburgh since 1987. In all that time I've twice had neighbours who weren't white.

I just pulled you up on a statement that I believe is false (that Scotland is only narrowly for Remain). I don't know what you think we're arguing about.

I don't think we are arguing, you picked up a point about Remain, I was pointing out that the OP thinking Scotland is some utopia is inaccurate, I should have just used the immigration stats to be honest.

As for personal anecdotes, myself and my friends have all experienced more racism and xenophobia in scotland than england, thing is, personal anecdotes are just that.

Education and policing are in a shambles in England. (As is the Prison Service and NHS)

Irrelevant point. They are in a shambles here because of the SNP. Why don't they do something about it? Answers - (a) they incompetent or (b) they are happy it is a shambles so they can pretend it would all be better when we have our "freedom"

Scotland is fine, yes we have our problems with education, police and the nhs but generally we don’t give a shit who you are. Of course you will get some idiots though same as everywhere else.

As an immigrant who has lived both in the south of England and the north east of Scotland, I definitely feel more at home and welcome in Scotland. I am white, though, so I cannot really comment on the level of racism.

Education and policing are in a shambles in England. (As is the Prison Service and NHS).

It's almost like there isn't a bottomless pit... you know what with geopolitics and all that...

Sturgeon’s views are more closely in line with ours

Don't kid yourself OP, Sturgeon talks as much shite as the rest of them. Don't get me wrong, as a country I think we are in a better position for the people than England are, but she stood up and promised X, Y & Z. She hasn't delivered.

Irrelevant point. They are in a shambles here because of the SNP. Why don't they do something about it? Answers - (a) they incompetent or (b) they are happy it is a shambles so they can pretend it would all be better when we have our "freedom"

Cobblers!
They are shambolic north and south of the border - so you can't blame the SNP!
Public Services are underfunded, subject to too much chopping and changing and nobody has come up with the 'best model' to work to yet. Teachers are flocking out of the profession in England (or desperate to) and police numbers are cut to the bone with many crimes behind de prioritised. The Prison Service in England is in a critical situation - recruitment and retention chronic. Privatisation of public services has brought chaos - not the improvement that was promised.

She hasn't delivered.

Because she ran on a populist campaign, something a lot of people have swallowed as being solely a "right wing" phenomenon

I don't think we are arguing
That seems like a bit of a u-turn from your last post "OK, you ignore the overall message though, you won that's all that counts."

And I will say that, throughout this thread, you have tied the Leave/Remain votes to views on immigration, which is also what the OP is doing - they think that the significant Remain majority in scotland indicates that Scotland is more pro-immigrant.

I don't think Scotland is any less racist or more pro-immigrant than England, so I believe there is another factor contributing to the difference in vote shares between the two nations. My guess, and it is a guess, is that one factor for some Leave voters is their sense of 'British' identity. The English identify more strongly as 'British' than Scots do.

Privatisation of public services has brought chaos - not the improvement that was promised.

The SNP are in favour of privatasation of some resources though, the NHS has become a relegion and not something to base the overall "stance" of a party, they are quite happy with it when it comes to railways or water, even voting along tory lines.

It's almost like things are not so black and white..

Er OP. I’m “forrin” and DH is too and trust me when I say this - we stand out a lot more in Scotland than in London!! By a long long mile. In London, I wouid say we are the average citizens and so are our DC who could be from anywhere from the Med into Asia.

Where we live in London - I have genuinely not met one person in real life who voted Brexit. It’s as if it’s hapiening in another country. People just can’t relate to the point of it at all and wonder who the hell all these Brexiteers are and what do they think they’re trying to achieve by this farce?

If your moving for racial reasons (even though you are British ), just stay in a city. London, NYC, LA, Paris etc. Even non-capitals such as Birmingham or Manchester.

Don’t let that snake Farage drive you out. He will whip up discontent and xenophobia for a few more months, and then as soon as people start to talk about actual policy, he will scuttle back under his rock with the other filth.

I'm English and have lived in Scotland for the past 16 years, I love it and never experienced any abuse for being English. Usually banter with regard to football matches etc xx

I live in central Scotland. There was a lot of anti English racism when I was growing up but genuinely have never heard any in years, probably not a good idea to wear an England shirt during football or rugby matches but otherwise fine.

Having said that I 100% agree about rich English people coming in and buying up all the houses in places like Pitlochry, Orkney and the islands completely changing the tone of the area and making it hard for locals to afford to get houses.

Non white racism definitely does exist, there is a very small non white population (I think it is about 5% of the population as a whole, higher in cities). I have no idea how it compares to England, but there is certainly almost no far right politics, Tommy Robinson is universally hated and Farage had to be escorted out of Edinburgh recently.

Nicola Sturgeon is setting out plans for her next once in a generation referendum soon, I'm a Scottish Nationalist and can see things will get heated again. I saw lifelong friends of mine fall out and get nasty and bitter over yes and no.