Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how people think a new Prime Minister is going to be able to deliver Brexit

200 replies

Bearbehind · 25/05/2019 11:12

I’m no fan of Theresa May; the reason we are in the mess we currently are is because of her red lines and the fact she has never been honest about what was and was not achievable.

But what do people think a new PM can achieve?

No deal will seriously damage the country, even the government’s own impact assessments have concluded that and there’s simply not the numbers in parliament for no cal to happen (even though it’s the default position)

The EU aren’t suddenly going to remove the backstop for a new PM because we’ve proven we cannot be trusted to do what we say so it’s needed.

OP posts:
AngeloMysterioso · 25/05/2019 16:43

UK public voted leave.

51.9% of those who voted in the referendum voted leave.

That is not “the UK public”.

BambooBoobam · 25/05/2019 16:45

Has anyone else been reading Rory Stewart as Rod Stewart? I’ve been thinking since when did Rod Stewart have a chance at being PM...

OublietteBravo · 25/05/2019 16:59

Since Rory’s given name is Roderick, he could easily have chosen to call himself Rod Stewart rather than Rory Stewart.

fairweathercyclist · 25/05/2019 17:04

That would be denying the democratic right of the majority who voted to leave. The will of the 17.4 million has to be fulfilled. I would therefore say the default is to leave with no deal

No it isn't because nobody said that no deal was an option at the time of the referendum.

Lets remember that about 3 months before the referendum Boris was a remainer. I think the "leave without a deal" is a load of nonsense from him. Boris will do what suits Boris. That may end up being leave without a deal. But I am not so sure.

However, I also doubt he will get elected as Tory leader. If you have someone like Raab, he might be stupid enough to take us out without a deal.

RedForShort · 25/05/2019 17:06

No point arguing with someone like edwinbear. A person with belief of superiority so great that they think another country isn't allowed to protect its sovereignty or national interest is not a person prepared to reason. Those who are so blinkered and hard of thinking are unshiftable from their radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism.

OublietteBravo · 25/05/2019 17:18

To everyone warming towards Rory Stewart, he is my MP and I had dealings with him a couple of years ago. It was quite a serious matter and he was absolutely ineffectual and hopeless. He had to constantly be reminded to answer emails and was no help at all when he could have been if he could have been bothered. Because he appears relatively normal compared to liars and charlatans doesn't mean he would be a good PM.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience. But I’m not sure the skill sets for being a good constituency MP and being Prime Minister are necessarily the same. In fact, I gather Theresa May was considered to be an excellent constituency MP.

In any case, how many people on this thread are Conservative Party members? I’m willing to bet that most posters won’t get to vote in the leadership contest. And don’t forget that last time around TM was elected as leader without balloting the membership. So you might not get a say even if you are a party member.

lljkk · 25/05/2019 17:19

I've been listening hard for reasons why Tories think new leader will help. This is full list I have so far:

New PM Would be "more flexible" (I suspect that flexible is code for charismatic, firm or persuasive) coz you know, May wasn't "bloody difficult" enough with the EU.

Would (somehow) make the EU cave into UK demands for no Irish protocol and other things UK wants (like no WA, straight to trade deal that UK wanted, cake & eat it too, etc.) because Theresa May "didn't really try" like a real Brexiter would do, to make the EU cave

Lots newly elected far right MEPs from all over EU*, including the openly vandalistic Brexit Party ones, will make EU want to get rid of UK at any price. The Best part about this argument was the person commenting (somewhere) today, that basically that will mean EU won't give any more extensions to A50. Means Sure Fire No Deal.

May could give them everything MPs want now but she'll still be voted down now, she's so disliked so she's no chance whatever she does now (only one voice said this, I think LK repeated it)

NicoAndTheNiners · 25/05/2019 17:23

If Boris knows he can't deliver why is he so keen for the job? Surely he would realise its a poisoned chalice? He'd be better off waiting 5-10 years and being PM then after someone else has taken the rap for it all?

I think we will leave with no deal. Which is very, very scary. What will happen with the Irish border with a no deal? Back to a hard border with check points, etc?

lljkk · 25/05/2019 17:38

Don't think realistically if you want to understand. BJ doesn't.

Folk like BJ are risk-takers (like enterpeneurs). There is a chance A50 will be revoked for other reasons & he won't get the blame. If he waits he may not get another chance to be PM. Also, folk like him have very high self-regard & genuinely think they are 'different' from rest of us and can do things other people don't get to do (think of the whole basis of scientology religion).

Being famous & elite makes some people into weirdos, basically.

1tisILeClerc · 25/05/2019 17:42

{What will happen with the Irish border with a no deal? Back to a hard border with check points, etc?}

As I said on the previous page, the EU and USA will TELL the UK where the border is going and as they have both signed up to the GFA (effectively) they will say it goes in the sea and not on the island.
The EU have been incredibly polite and helpful so far. Much more of this nonsense and the gloves will be coming off. The EU has sufficient 'muscle' to tell the USA and China to 'do one' on various thing if necessary, don't think they can't deal with a little island off the French coast.

grumpyyetgorgeous · 25/05/2019 18:20

there's going to be a general election, isn't there

What good would a general election do? There's nobody sensible left to vote for. I'm a lifelong labour voter but they're a shower of shits at the moment too. Shock

SimonJT · 25/05/2019 18:32

The whole thing is a nightmare, a scary one.

The thought of someone like Boris or Hunt in charge is genuinely scary.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 25/05/2019 18:35

Delighted Brexit is going to destroy the Tory party. Less delighted that Brexit will also destroy the UK. Oh well, reap what you sow.

Backwoodsgirl · 25/05/2019 18:36

As a Brit in the US I have been watching Brexit as a interested outsider. I expected right from the start that it would be a no deal Brexit. The extensions and now this are just delaying the inevitable.

Alsohuman · 25/05/2019 18:43

Let’s hope you’re wrong or we’re fucked.

TriciaH87 · 25/05/2019 18:46

Because hopefully the next pm has the balls to say to the EU your deal is shit, we are leaving without one on...... If you decide to offer us a better one between now and then we will consider it but if not see you around.

lljkk · 25/05/2019 18:57

Expectation #2 in my list above, Tricia.

Havanananana · 25/05/2019 19:09

Because hopefully the next pm has the balls to say to the EU your deal is shit, we are leaving without one on...... If you decide to offer us a better one between now and then we will consider it but if not see you around

The EU has offered the UK a deal - it is called 'Membership.' The UK has decided that this is not good enough, and Johnson/Leave promised the voters the fantasy that the UK could have all of the benefits of membership with none of the costs or responsibilities. It's not the EU offer that is shit - it is the UK's decision to leave that is the cause of the stink.

The EU cannot offer a better deal than the UK already enjoys, cannot offer a deal to a non-member that is better than members themselves enjoy, and cannot offer terms that favour a country that is soon to become a competitor rather than a fellow member.

See you around.. Really? What will happen the day after Brexit, when all of the UK's trade agreements with the EU and the rest of the world are torn up? Where exactly is the UK going if it leaves the EU? Who is it going to trade with? How long will it take to make these trade agreements? In the meantime, what is the UK going to eat? What are factories going to make and who will they sell to? How will people pay their bills when there is no trade and no work?

FannyWork · 25/05/2019 19:09

What happened reminded me of some divorce cases. Before the case they both talk, agree to be adult, civilised and fair with each other but when they go to court one of them is all lawyered up and has been intending to go for the jugular all along so the other party’s generous offer has become just a starting point.

May went in expecting it to be a civilised process with mutual respect which couldn’t have been further from the truth. She never recovered from that error of judgement.

The EU went into negotiations with the aim of forcing us back in by offering a bad deal. The start of the new negotiations need to be that Remain is off the table, it’s not going to happen. If Farage does well in the EU elections that will give them a lot of leverage to say that as there would be a very real prospect the UK if forced to remain might end up with a PM Farage which neither the EU or UK establishment want, it will probably concentrate all their minds on creating a deal designed for a functional Brexit for both the EU and UK rather than a deal intended to force Remain.

lljkk · 25/05/2019 19:15

What FannyWork describes is a blend of my reasons #1 & #2 & #3 above. Eg.

#1: "charismatic, firm & persuasive"
#2: EU will cave, just you watch!
#3: EU is going to be so sick of us soon that they'll agree to anything.

If it sounds like rerun of 2016 messages.... It Is.
The list is still pretty short.

Bearbehind · 25/05/2019 19:26

fanny until Leavers stop thinking like that were all screwed.

The EU aren’t being difficult or bullying, they are enforcing rules which we helped to write.

We can’t leave and just keep the goods bits without the bad bits.

What part of that isn’t sinking in?

OP posts:
Parker231 · 25/05/2019 19:38

Why would the EU change it’s position, they aren’t the one leaving. The UK will never again enjoy the benefits it’s currently enjoys unless they decide to revoke.

Havanananana · 25/05/2019 19:44

@ FannyWork, TriciaH87 and others.

It really isn't up to the EU to come up with any sort of deal. It is the UK that wants to leave and to forge a new, exciting relationship.

Regardless of who the next PM is (Johnson, Gove, Raab, Hancock or A N Other) what deal do you think the UK should be proposing to the EU? Two conditions:

  1. It has to be a deal that the UK Parliament will accept, and
  2. It has to be a deal that has a realistic chance of the EU accepting.

The floor is yours ...

Isthisafreename · 25/05/2019 19:53

@FannyWork - What happened reminded me of some divorce cases. Before the case they both talk, agree to be adult, civilised and fair with each other but when they go to court one of them is all lawyered up and has been intending to go for the jugular all along so the other party’s generous offer has become just a starting point.

I was nodding away while reading this, thinking that it was a good analogy. Then I got to this: May went in expecting it to be a civilised process with mutual respect which couldn’t have been further from the truth

Are you really so deluded that you believe this? The EU, from day 1, has said that there are two red lines: the GFA must be protected; the four freedoms come as a package. They have not deviated from this. They have bent over backwards to facilitate Brexit within these confines. The problem is the UK were deluded. They believed the EU needed them more than the UK needed the EU. They believed that they just had to ask and they would be given. They believed the Irish would stand by while they ripped up the GFA. None of this was or is the case.

May went in with a series of red lines that meant, for brexit to happen, the only way the GFA could be protected was with the backstop. If she had firstly considered what was possible under the constraints of the GFA she would never have introduced the red lines. Unfortunately, she suffered from the delusions listed above so went in guns blazing and ended up in this mess.

Certainly, the official EU position was that they would prefer the UK to remain but if they chose to go, so be it. Now, whatever about the official position, must Europeans, particularly the Irish, just wish ye would feck off out and let us get on with more important matters. At this stage, I think the UK is so toxic, the EU will, in the medium to long-term, be better off with you out. There will be short-term pain, particularly in Ireland but hey, we're used to Britain shitting on Ireland so we'll deal with it. Luckily we have the support of the rest of the EU.

Parker231 · 25/05/2019 19:55

The EU have already said that there will be no new deal.