Zebra crossings

[TheZebraCrosser]

I was under the impression that when driving, stopping to let a pedestrian cross on a zebra crossing (white stripes on road, big flashing Belisha beacons) was in fact mandatory, not discretionary.

So why did some twat in a van holler 'could have put your hand up to say thank you you ignorant sod' as I (a pedestrian) sauntered across the other day.

I have noticed (as a motorist) that more and more pedestrians are now scuttling across zebra crossings almost apologetically while mouthing thank you s and waving.

This is all very well and sweet of them but it leaves me a bit bemused as they have a right to cross anyway.

I'm wondering now, if, when I get to the end of temporary traffic lights, would I be advised to 'thank' the person waiting at the other end for not jumping the red light? To thank someone for giving way at a roundabout if you gave right if way anyway?

And then there are people who step out into the road with no crossing at all without so much as batting an eyelid and scream abuse if you don't dodge them by a wide enough margin.

Help needed.

Here are the official instructions in case you need to refer to them.

Rule 19
Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.

Totally agree with Lizzie. I couldn’t give a shiny shite whether someone waves to me on a zebra crossing or not. It’s kind of polite, as is holding the door or letting someone out at a junction, but it’s not something to emotionally invest in.

Yes Redcar. I wonder why it pushes so many posters' buttons?!

So in theory I could be standing there all day.

In theory, yes. In practice, no. I'd estimate that 99.9% of drivers stop when someone is waiting at a zebra crossing.

You're obviously a waver and a driver who expects to be waved at.

I'm just someone with manners.

Soup- that's nice.

lizzie
I don't think many of us are going to sit seething if one person doesn't say thank you.

What many of us find bizarre and quite a rude attitude is the 'but I dont see why I should say thank you anyway' philosophy. As many of us have pointed out, pleases and thank yous are small parts of day to day interaction that make life all round a bit more friendly, cordial, polite, as such we will routinely use them in situations even where technical there's no need.

Adopting a stance like the OP who even compared saying thank you on a zebra crossing to saying thank you for not being attacked comes across as quite a rude and abrasive attitude to hold because often the principle 'but why should I?' comes across that way.

pleases and thank yous are small parts of day to day interaction that make life all round a bit more friendly, cordial, polite, as such we will routinely use them in situations even where technical there's no need.

This! They cost nothing. They don't even take up any time.

What many of us find bizarre and quite a rude attitude is the 'but I dont see why I should say thank you anyway

No one is saying this though!

Have any of you been able to grasp the principle here?

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with waving or being waved at if that's your thing. It isn't mine and I don't see it's necessary to do thus in order to prevent verbal abuse.

Stopping at a zebra crossing is a rule - you have to do it. There are lots of rules in life- like stopping at a level crossing. Does the train driver wave to thank card for stopping ? No of course not.

You 'have' to give way to vehicles coming from the right on a roundabout. Do all the other cars coming from the right wave as they go around the roundabout - at all the cars waiting to join the roundabout ? NO THEY Don't. Dibthe mitorisys waiting to join the roundabout curse said car drivers for failing to wave? NO!

It's nothing to do with politeness- it's to do with the rules of the road.

it’s not something to emotionally invest in.

That applies equally to the "why the fuck should I?" posters though.

Stopping at a zebra crossing is a rule - you have to do it

No, you should stop if someone is waiting to cross which is not the same as must. The broken rule is if you don't stop when someone is actually on the crossing.

Soup - yes precisely.

Granted, I have said myself that saying please and thank you matter, especially in this country. I like to smile at people who smile at me, and I do say please and thank you. But to me it’s face to face interactions where this applies, not so much to a zebra crossing.

I have suggested that possibly the OP being autistic is relevant. A characteristic is seeing the world in very literal terms. You’re doing what the rules say you must, so why should I say thank you?

What I’m rolling my eyes at is posters saying that they would be inwardly seething about it? Surely that’s a waste of emotional energy?

And another thing to note: we have a man verbally abusing a woman because she didn’t say thank you? That surely can never be justified??

'but I dont see why I should say thank you anyway

No one is saying this though!

You are.

You 'have' to give way to vehicles coming from the right on a roundabout. Do all the other cars coming from the right wave as they go around the roundabout - at all the cars waiting to join the roundabout ? NO THEY Don't. Dibthe mitorisys waiting to join the roundabout curse said car drivers for failing to wave? NO!
Because, as I said last time on this example, their hands are on the wheel and gear stick enabling them to pull out and drive around the roundabout, obviously.

Every day there's a merge on my route to work. Every day the rules of the road say we have to merge. Every day either I say thank you to other drivers (once I'm in the lane and its safe to do a quick wave) or another driver does the same to me.

On my way to the supermarket there's some traffic calming. In one direction I have right of way, in the other I don't. I say thank you to other drivers. 80% of the time other drives do the same.

Of course we don't have to, but it's polite and courteous. I'm not going to see over the minority who don't say thank you, but it is interesting that I'm so used to courtesy being the norm (thank yous, being waved out at junctions / flashed across a busy road if on foot) that the instances without manners are what stand out.

we have a man verbally abusing a woman because she didn’t say thank you? That surely can never be justified??

No. Or with any combination of sexes.

You 'have' to give way to vehicles coming from the right on a roundabout.

Irrelevant. That is a "must" not a "should".

It's a bit like me thanking the plumber for not nicking my jewellery. Or thanking the driver for not molesting me.

@TheZebraCrosser I see you've said several times that politeness in pedestrian/driver interactions isn't the same as customer/waitress or customer/cashier or whatever, but I haven't seen you explain why.

To me, for example, you would say thank you as you get off a bus, right? You're not saying "thank you for not throwing me off at an earlier stop", you're saying "thanks for the journey", even though you already paid and so the bus driver had to drive you anyway.

Similarly when I wave thank you at a zebra crossing, I'm not saying "thank you for not running me over", I'm saying "thanks for letting me through".

Could you please explain the difference to me? I see it as basic politeness in both situations.

This is a new thing though.

It's started in the last couple of years.

Nope. I've always done it and am in my mid 50s. Taught by my parents who would be pushing 90 if they were still with us.
It's called manners.
I've been driving over 35 years, and people have always done it.
I totally agree with Life on P3 (I think it was), saying you can tell a lot about a person who is so 'entitled' (your words OP), that they think they don't need to say thankyou because someone actually has to do something for them.
A wave / smile / nod - whichever gesture you are least uncomfortable with - is just very, very basic manners.
Yes, it pisses me off when people don't. Same as when they don't wave their hand if I let a driver through a single car gap, or a person who doesn't say thanks or smile when I pass an open door on to them. It costs nothing to be nice to people.

I think it comes down to what you’re prepared to be bothered by. I hate it if someone doesn’t acknowledge a gift I’ve sent them. I don’t mind if a stranger doesn’t acknowledge a driving courtesy. Both are nice when they do happen. I can’t think of any situation where hurling abuse from a vehicle is justified, and that most certainly includes ‘she didn’t wave to me’.

I get your point OP.

Unfortunately, a lot of drivers don’t stop for pedestrians or even look for them. I push a bright orange double pram and I’ve lost count how many times drivers will see me about to cross and speed up or don’t indicate until last minute so I have to either back up or get stuck in the middle of the road. Some go right through the crossing even if someone is waiting. My son was almost hit because an idiot driver wasn’t paying attention to the road works an ran a red light. I had the green man and had looked both ways. I was about to step forward with the pram when I saw a dark spot in my peripheral and this driver comes flying past running a red light and I can see him reaching in the back of his car and eyes weren’t on the road. Another time, a car actually did bump the pram. He was apologetic though because he knew he wasn’t paying attention and didn’t have any excuse since he had been waiting for three minutes in line.

I can’t help but thank the ones that do when there are so many who don’t that will eventually injure or sadly, kill someone.

Ok here's a scenario.

I step foot on zebra crossing. Or my dc does.

There is a car coming but it can see me and appears to be slowing.

Car in fact fails to stop. Car runs me / dc over. I / dc am killed.

Who is at fault?

(Regardless of whether I / dc was intending to wave or not.)

If I had not begun to wave would the motorist be treated more favourably?

Could they claim a defence of 'inwardly seething at my lack of moral standards' in failing to wave?

No thought not.

Or another one, OP. Imagine you're driving down a residential street with cars parked all along the other side. Another driver is approaching and pulls in behind the parked cars so you can go past.

Do you thank them, even though it was your right of way?

Car in fact fails to stop. Car runs me / dc over. I / dc am killed. Who is at fault?

The driver.

Could they claim a defence of 'inwardly seething at my lack of moral standards' in failing to wave?

Well no, but nobody is arguing that someone's lack of politeness justifies manslaughter!

Good winter: No, why would I thank a bus driver ?

I rarely use the park and ride but am amazed at how many people do say thank you and the driver doesn't even acknowledge them back. He doesn't care whether he's thanked or not. It's his job. Their gratitude is totally wasted on him.

Do people thank train drivers, pilots etc?