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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who was BU? Manager or Colleague - Time And Pay

214 replies

Notss · 22/05/2019 14:08

Hi all,

I’d welcome thoughts on an issue that happened in the office last week; as I can see both sides and wanted others thoughts:

We’ve just gotten a new manager. Before he joined, the unwritten policy was that as long as you didn’t take the P you could leave the occasional half hour early for appointments, childcare whatever as long as your work wasn’t behind and you would made it up at some point when it was needed.

The new manger however isn’t keen on this; last week a colleague asked if she could leave half an hour early for an appointment. The manger asked her to email him with a written request. She was then allowed to leave half an hour early but was docked half an hours pay. (We’re salaried)

Yesterday, we were in a staff meeting lead by this manager. It got to got to the end of our directed hours; and we were about two thirds through the agenda. My colleague stood up, said see you tomorrow and walked out. She said this morning it was in response to being docked pay — if that’s the way the manger wants to play it, she isn’t working a second beyond her contract hours.

What are people’s thoughts?
Thanks!

OP posts:
AlexaAmbidextra · 23/05/2019 18:12

It’s sad when this happens. Before retirement I worked for a healthcare charity. We always shut over Christmas and new year as patients didn’t want to book appointments rather than spend time, which may be limited, with their families. The four or five days for this was always just given to us in recompense for all the extra stuff we did throughout the year. This was an employer that gave the statutory minimum for everything. There was no pension scheme and we all worked for less than the going rate as we loved what we did. We threw ourselves into fundraising out of hours and never claimed TOIL.

Cue a new tranche of trustees who decided that our Christmas break now had to come out of our annual leave allowance. These few days were the only perk we had ever enjoyed. So all the staff goodwill went out of the window and we made sure we claimed TOIL for every half hour extra we worked from then on in. So the charity was the loser. Such a short sighted attitude on the part of the trustees. ☹️

wonderwhat · 23/05/2019 18:14

Good on your colleague. She’s right and your new manager is a twit

wonderwhat · 23/05/2019 18:15

I want balls as big as your colleagues!

Xyzzzzz · 23/05/2019 18:18

Flexibility works both ways.

eddielizzard · 23/05/2019 18:22

New manager has shot himself in the foot. This sort of short-sighted nit picking kills goodwill.

Onceuponacheesecake · 23/05/2019 18:26

Agree with your colleague but she isn't doing herself any favours career wise. I'm not sure what the answer is.
We've recently had a new manager come in who is like this. We work 7.5 hours a day and could come in when we wanted. She's brought in set shifts and designated lunch times. She doesn't like people being away from their desk. She think it's looks good when people say late but we don't work somewhere that this is often required. It's a PITA and I was once an employee who would think nothing of volunteering to stay late if needed etc but I'm at my limit.

Suebreo · 23/05/2019 18:28

It’s 2019 ur new manager needs to find a new job, not in management xx

horizontalis · 23/05/2019 18:31

#SavingSpaces2019 She didn't leave early, she left on the dot of her contracted hours, which just so happened to be part-way through a meeting.

She had asked to leave early on another day and make the hours up (previously this has been accommodated) - she was told no, and if she wanted to leave half an hour early she would have her pay docked.

nuxe1984 · 23/05/2019 18:31

I'm totally with your colleague! If the new manager wants to stick to the rules rigidly then it works both ways.

Though maybe somebody needs to point out to him that there's always been a certain amount of goodwill in the company and nobody has taken the piss with it.

Reallyevilmuffin · 23/05/2019 18:33

Theres a whole Reddit thread on this - malicious compliance, when they don't bend for you you don't bend for them and they suddenly realise it costs them a whole lot more. Well done colleague!

Omfgareyouforreal · 23/05/2019 18:34

I think you are the manager looking for advice because you know now that you messed up!!

YeOldeTrout · 23/05/2019 18:40

Oh dear. I hope colleague gets another job she likes better. I'm 100% on her side, btw.

OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow · 23/05/2019 18:45

Well done that colleague. We've had the same, previous flexibility, no piss taking, in fact most still had loads of hours accurred, just time for appointments etc. Now if we are out of work for anything we have to apply for loa. Colleagues with unavoidable time worked having to apply for leave (and getting it only unpaid) for accompanying disabled relatives to doctors. But expected to attend meetings out of hours.

Treefloof · 23/05/2019 18:46

People ALWAYS take the piss and abuse privileges like this - the fact that you all think you'reentitledto do this off your own back says it all
Simply not true, I have been in my current job 5 years, my boss is frankly the best boss ever, no one has ever come close.
And in all that time I have given my boss my all.
Absolutely fair, kind, generous and will bollock anyone if needed. I would walk over hot coals barefoot for this boss. My job doesn't lend well to flexi but the boss does the best that can be done within such constraints.
The whole team has been together about 4 years, never a bad word said, not one bad word.

gamerwidow · 23/05/2019 18:53

OP I'm with your colleague. I'm a manager and good productive team environment needs give and take on both sides.
No way would I dock someones pay for the sake of 30 minutes and then insist they work unpaid overtime straight afterwards.

I do expect people to make up any time they miss at work (that's fair) but being so rigid destroys goodwill amongst the team.

blackteasplease · 23/05/2019 18:57

My work are v flexible and therefore, as others have said, they get flexibility back.

So last night our main boss had taken ages to check over something I'd done meaning to get it in on time I had to work yesterday evening til 9 (not in the office). No problems doing that as if I have an appointment or childcare problems I can take the time needed.

viques · 23/05/2019 19:07

The manager is a fool. Once that goodwill is lost it is impossible to get back.

MitziK · 23/05/2019 19:12

I like her style. I wouldn't be surprised if the appointment was for an interview, which she's now received a formal offer for.

I accrued many hours of overtime one year and got royally fucked over by being refused TOIL, told to put a claim in and then informed that, as my contract said TOIL, I wouldn't be paid for it. And that it was too late for TOIL. My contract then got changed to say I would be paid for all overtime, but only if approved in writing ten days in advance. A letter accompanied this saying that, to add to that, I was not to request the time, the boss would inform me if they wished me to work overtime two weeks in advance. The general feel of the letter was Know Your Place and attempted to be very threatening in tone.

So, when particular things that were known about many months in advance came up, I waited for the instruction request to work 18 hour days. It never came.

I went home instead. Seems that it was assumed I'd work the hours anyway, which would have put me in the position that I had not been told to, so would be doing them for free.

The fallout was quite spectacular, by all accounts. I just said when hauled in for it that I was a little confused how I could stay when [holds up contract and letter] x sent me these on [date] instructing me that if I were to do so without specific instructions with x notice and written approval, it would be regarded as Misconduct.

They never tried that one on me again. As it was, sometimes I would agree if asked, to take it as TOIL, sometimes there would be a set payment offered and I took some of them. They were slightly peeved when I declined working 7 days a week + 3-6 hours extra a day for 2 months, though. Wasn't 'very helpful or teamwork', apparently. It wasn't in keeping with the European Working Time Directive either.

Sometimes (if you can afford to take the risk, ie, have employment rights or a new job), it's good to make a stand. Especially for the benefit of others seeing you aren't taking that level of shit.

User8888888 · 23/05/2019 19:17

I’m impressed with your colleague. As a manager I’ve always tried to be as flexible as possible but I’ve had managers above me with very differing attitudes which sometimes makes life hard. I remember being super angry once as on day x, I worked a 14 hour day. The next day I had a family emergency, still worked 6 hours but had to take it as unpaid leave. I was fuming.

PolarBearkshire · 23/05/2019 19:18

Maybe your colleague wants to be a manager then? I also think leaving earlier is a no go. Take unpaid leave and get on with plenty of work you are paid for. I would fire her

TheBestSuperheroIsSpideman · 23/05/2019 19:19

This is why proper flexitime with core hours is so useful. Granted some places can't offer this but many can and it really engenders goodwill and loyalty.

HagridsBigToe · 23/05/2019 19:20

Im with your colleague. No flexibility, then everybody picks up tools at 9am downs tools at 5 exactly.

HagridsBigToe · 23/05/2019 19:21

Maybe your colleague wants to be a manager then? I also think leaving earlier is a no go. Take unpaid leave and get on with plenty of work you are paid for. I would fire her

You sound a joy to work for.

cardibach · 23/05/2019 19:24

I also think leaving earlier is a no go. Take unpaid leave and get on with plenty of work you are paid for. I would fire her
Polar fire her for what? She didn’t leave early. She worked her hours. Her manager was the one so keen that those hours were the B all and end all.
Good for her.

Witchtower · 23/05/2019 19:38

They are both right.

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