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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who was BU? Manager or Colleague - Time And Pay

214 replies

Notss · 22/05/2019 14:08

Hi all,

I’d welcome thoughts on an issue that happened in the office last week; as I can see both sides and wanted others thoughts:

We’ve just gotten a new manager. Before he joined, the unwritten policy was that as long as you didn’t take the P you could leave the occasional half hour early for appointments, childcare whatever as long as your work wasn’t behind and you would made it up at some point when it was needed.

The new manger however isn’t keen on this; last week a colleague asked if she could leave half an hour early for an appointment. The manger asked her to email him with a written request. She was then allowed to leave half an hour early but was docked half an hours pay. (We’re salaried)

Yesterday, we were in a staff meeting lead by this manager. It got to got to the end of our directed hours; and we were about two thirds through the agenda. My colleague stood up, said see you tomorrow and walked out. She said this morning it was in response to being docked pay — if that’s the way the manger wants to play it, she isn’t working a second beyond her contract hours.

What are people’s thoughts?
Thanks!

OP posts:
Gigglinghysterically · 22/05/2019 15:43

My first thought when the new manager asked for an email request was that he has been given the agenda of tightening things up in the dept.

Senior management may be using him to change practices which they don't agree with and using the new guy to fire their bullets.

I'd look out for more changes in the coming weeks and months.

museumum · 22/05/2019 15:44

Totally OT: got and gotten are used differently where i am.

I have got a car - means the permanent state of car ownership
I have gotten a car - means the act of getting it (implies recently)

ThatCurlyGirl · 22/05/2019 15:45

I think I love your colleague a little bit! Works both ways she's right!

Ariesgirl1988 · 22/05/2019 15:49

Good on your colleague OP I don't blame her the the new manager can't have it both ways she stuck to his rules.

I've had a few bosses like him. One in particular was such a cheapskate. She expected staff to come in half an hour early to set up but wouldn't pay us til 8am after a few of us argued the issue she agreed to pay us for that half an hour but said if we're 5 mins late we'd lose the whole half an hour me and another colleague said thats fine we'll sit in the staff room til 8am lol but what really pisse me off was when I asked to leave an hour early for a much needed Doctors appointment I said I would've been happy to make the time up another day and a colleague had agreed to stay late and cover my abscence and I received a 20 min lecture on my irresponsibilty before being told my colleague staying isn't neccessary and I'd be docked that hour as appointments should be handled out of work hours. But this bitch expected all staff to stay after closing once a month for staff meetings and it was unpaid I was so pissed off that when the next meeting happed I walked out at 6 when I finished the manager you can't go staff meeting tonight I replied "well the meeting is out of my contract hours and I'm not paid for thag time so legally I don't have to stay I'll read the minutes of the meeting when they're completed. Have a nice evening" the boss was fumming and had me in the office for a bollocking the next day she even said I would be given a written warning but I was prepared and pulled out my contract and said it doesn't state I have to stay for staff meetings after hours especially as I am not paid for it. I also said that if i recieve a written warning she would be recieving a letter from my solicitor her face was a picture and one month later I left for a better job and due to her attidude and treatment of staff her businesses (she had two branches) took a big hit and she had to close one down cos staff kept leaving karma's a bitch Grin

PintOfBovril · 22/05/2019 15:50

When my dad died I asked to leave an hour early one day as I had to register the death at the town hall. My manager at the time had been truly awful at supporting me (told me it was a blessing he'd died suddenly etc) and I'd only had two days leave because they were going on and on about how short staffed they were. I was in my early 20s at the time and quite naive. The response to asking to leave an hour early was "put it in writing, make sure other colleagues happy first and make up the hour as soon as you can". After that I worked to the very hours I was paid for, left on the dot and took my full lunch every day. I never forgot how that response made me feel and now I manage a team I try to make sure I'm a human first.

Ariesgirl1988 · 22/05/2019 16:06

Wow PintOfBovril that's fucking callous! I'd have gone straight to a solicitor if I had been treated like that! Actually I did just that on another boss who I can describe as a bitch troll hag from hell! I suffered 2 years of bullying at her hands but christ she never went as far as that when there was a death in the family whilst I was there

SarahTancredi · 22/05/2019 16:14

I'm with your colleague.

Far to many many rely on forced overtime and the decency of staff to stay til something is done even when they arent paid

Its about time managers realised just how fucked they would be if everyone stuck to contracted hours and nothing more.

Eliza9919 · 22/05/2019 16:28

Yesterday, we were in a staff meeting lead by this manager. It got to got to the end of our directed hours; and we were about two thirds through the agenda. My colleague stood up, said see you tomorrow and walked out. She said this morning it was in response to being docked pay — if that’s the way the manger wants to play it, she isn’t working a second beyond her contract hours.

Good on her. Swings and roundabouts go both ways.

Nonnymum · 22/05/2019 16:31

I don't blame your colleague. If your manager can't be flexible why should staff be flexible. Everywhere I have worked we have done flexitime which works well and avoids problems like this. It means there is goodwill from staff and the work gets done.

Acis · 22/05/2019 16:31

You all have a very clear case for saying to the manager that if they are going to be docked money for leaving half an hour early, then the right to payment for work done out of hours has to extend to non-client work.

Did your colleague tell the manager what she intended to do in advance?

Hecateh · 22/05/2019 16:39

Colleague all the way
Good for her

StCharlotte · 22/05/2019 17:01

Well done colleague (I wouldn't have the balls)!

PintOfBovril That's shocking.

My FIL was on a life support machine and the time came to let him go. MIL asked DH to go to the hospital with her and so DH told his boss he was going to say goodbye to his Dad. "No problem, just take it as holiday and sort it out tomorrow morning when you're back in." Nice guy. Not.

GiveMeFiveMinutes · 22/05/2019 17:01

What was the outcome of this @Notss ?

How did the manager react?

Loopytiles · 22/05/2019 17:05

Unless business requirements mean a certain level of cover is needed, the line manager was U to refuse a reasonable request to finish early. Not necessarily U to ask for email requests.

Line manager was also U to expect people to stay late for a meeting, without notice.

Your colleagues’ actions were likely to be “career limiting” though given that the manager and employer has much more power than she does.

amysaurus87 · 22/05/2019 17:17

I'm with your colleague here, it's about give and take.

YoThePussy · 22/05/2019 17:23

I was working for a charity a number of years ago and did a large amount of overtime for them as they were short staffed. Duly put in a claim for extra wages as agreed with the Director. Called in and told my claim was unreasonable as ‘We are a charity you know’. Replied, ‘Well I am not a charity, no overtime money, no more overtime will be done’. Director was a twat, used to call staff meetings at 4.55pm on a Friday when we were due to finish at 5pm. Sat through far too many with him ranting and raving until I walked out one day and never went back.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/05/2019 17:25

Oh the grammar police are out in strength today on a few threads. FFS! I wasn't being the grammar police, just wondered if the OP was not in the UK because:

a) she used a word I am more familiar with as a US based word - have acknowledged happily and politely that I was wrong and it is a word often used in parts of the UK.

b) the work practices she outlined didn't seem right, docking pay for a salaried worker seems odd.

It might have made a difference to the advice she was given. That's why I asked. Note I asked not that I corrected

It seems you justasking are more interested in snarking than being helpful. Neither of the posters who corrected me felt the need to take me to task. They simply explained....

ScreamingValenta · 22/05/2019 17:28

I'm behind your colleague.

Manage-to-rule = work-to-rule

Work-to-rule = manage-to-rule

JonSlow · 22/05/2019 17:28

I used to be the manager of a finance system, and sat within the finance business unit instead of IT function. Quite often, patching and updates etc had to be carried out during non business hours. My IT colleagues were paid overtime/shift allowance etc. I asked for the same and got told no.

So I stopped doing the out of hours work. I got a bollocking because the databases soon became slow and needed sorting, and I got told to just get it done.

I did what I was told like a good little minion. However I took the system down during business hours for 3 days in a month to do the work that used to be done out of hours. So no finance work could be carried out by the function for a fair whack of time. Unsurprisingly I got a bollocking for that too.

So I asked my very non technical manager what was the solution, if I wasn’t being paid to work all hours. His solution - I should train him how to do everything needed, and be on call in case he needed me to help. First time he tried, he bricked the system.

Guess who now gets paid overtime....

WhatchaMaCalllit · 22/05/2019 17:40

I'm also on Team Colleague here...was there any fall out or follow up from Dick Manager person?

Magenta82 · 22/05/2019 17:47

I'm a manager and I support the colleague in this, any sensible person knows that life is give and take, people who are treated well will generally feel happier and be more productive.

Original poster
Notss · 22/05/2019 17:48

Hi all,

Apologies; I was driving... I don’t know what the manager said to her; but she announced her resignation today. Read into that what you will.

The manager didn’t react at the time, just carried on with the meeting and hadn’t mentioned it today at all.

OP posts:
Newyearnewme2019 · 22/05/2019 17:56

You'll probably find quite a few will leave in the next few months with a a manager like this. Once you can see his incompetence in an area you'll start seeing it in all aspects of work/staff related issues

WhatchaMaCalllit · 22/05/2019 17:58

The manager announced that the manager was resigning or the colleague has resigned? Sorry I'm just not sure who has resigned.

bridgetreilly · 22/05/2019 18:02

Honestly, if it was me, I would go to see the manager, explain how things used to work and why that was an effective system. And yes, he's in charge, but just explain that it will be a big culture change he's asking for, and he can already see how it will lose good will on the part of his staff. And then leave it up to him. If he keeps on like this, well, you all know what to do.