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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want all kids to have a proper break time in school?

205 replies

SugarPlumLairy2 · 19/05/2019 11:33

AIBU to think my dd should have sufficient time during lunch to actually eat her lunch?

My DD has additional needs and goes to a mainstream school. She has an EHCP in which she MUST have movements breaksthroughout the day. Usually the school useplay time/lunch for these breaks.

So I am fed up of her coming out of school, hungry, on verge of meltdown, anxious etc. Because there wasn’t time to have a movement break AND lunch. Other parents (SENS and Mainstream) have complained of the same, kids being held back because someone is messing about so WHOLE class has to wait. They miss break in the morning , Miss part or all of lunch break as punishment/to complete class work /practice lining up neatly etc. No afternoon break routinely scheduled . I’m fed up.
So many parents complaining of same thing too. Those breaks are really important for the kids to let off steam and rest before afternoon classes. And then when they are wired etc in the afternoon the teachers have to deal with the fallout. How is this helping anyone?

So this petition hit my Facebook and I have signed it. AIBU to ask you all to have a look and sign/share too? Please.

Our kids are under so much pressure in school, at least let them have a decent lunch.

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/legislate-for-90-minutes-playtime-in-a-school-day-and-make-removal-of-it-illegal?source=facebook-share-button&time=1558197250

OP posts:
Doogleblue123 · 21/05/2019 20:34

Decomposing composers is this a primary or secondary school?

cagni65 · 21/05/2019 20:53

The right to play is embedded in the UN CRC
www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx
Article 31

  1. States Parties recognize the right of the child to rest and leisure, to engage in play and recreational activities appropriate to the age of the child and to participate freely in cultural life and the arts.
  2. States Parties shall respect and promote the right of the child to participate fully in cultural and artistic life and shall encourage the provision of appropriate and equal opportunities for cultural, artistic, recreational and leisure activity.
SugarPlumLairy2 · 21/05/2019 21:16

debbiewest I did not say should, I said COULD in the knowledge that even if you disagreed with 90 minutes and thought 60 was sufficient there are children not even getting close to 60 minutes and no guarantee the petition would achieve the full 90 minutes either.

Equally I did not say teach kids social skills to get them through playtime 🙄. I Said social skills are a necessary part of life.

I am fully aware that SENS needs vary from child to child.

My child NEEDS social skills classes, and all the other things on her EHCP, just to get by, not to thrive, just to get by. What about the kids who don’t have a diagnosis, do you know how really hard it is to get an EHCP these days? Where’s YOUR sensitivity to the needs of others,

I have been polite and entered into sensible, healthy discussion despite being misquoted several times. I’ve explained why I signed the petition many times because apparently reading comprehension isn’t everyone’s friend.

The irony of you complaining my child has social skill classes where others don’t.... that’s the whole point.. some kids get a break others don’t. 20 mins for lunch.... good grief.

I understand for some children break can be difficult. In a study that has been repeated and reviewed over the years to track the decline in breaks and effects on children they didn’t come back and say 50% of kids would settle for less break, 30% thinks they get enough. An overwhelming 85% said they need more, they don’t get enough to even eat.

Yet somehow by pointing out the majority response I am unreasonable.

The one thing you and I agree on, people can read and sign IF they want.

OP posts:
SugarPlumLairy2 · 21/05/2019 21:22

Cagni that’s good to know👍 Thank you

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Doogleblue123 · 21/05/2019 21:47

Nocoolnamesleft this is an interesting article: www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/may/21/how-can-we-get-our-children-playing-outside-again?

About halfway through it says about needing to teach children how to play together. Maybe what your describing is the result of neglect in the school system and teachers pitting kids against each other by using whole class punishment for the misbehaviour of one or two kids.

Passtherioja · 21/05/2019 23:33

About halfway through it says about needing to teach children how to play together. Maybe what your describing is the result of neglect in the school system and teachers pitting kids against each other by using whole class punishment for the misbehaviour of one or two kids.

...no, what you see is parents who no longer play with their children or allow them to play out.

Schools are having to fill that gap along with children not being potty trained, not having correct speech modelled, not having rules and boundaries, not being allowed to be independent(helicopter parents) , not being allowed to fail (lawn mower parents).

In school we teach children that certain words are not appropriate, we teach them how to share, how to use manners, how to use cutlery, why you don't pop where ever you are standing, why punching someone is not acceptable...the list goes on.

Of course we teach them how to play, in some schools we teach them everything else....I'm just wondering when the parents will start parenting again so we can teach!

ClarkeMurphy · 22/05/2019 00:34

They’re the ones suffering so schools can get the academic results.

And why do schools want academic results? Because the government insist on it. And why is that? Because it is what parents want. These things don't happen in a vacuum. The pressure on kids will reduce when parents (as a group) realise that mental health is important and harassing kids/teachers about exam results doesn't help.

There are a lot of parents who get it. But there are far more, IME, that don't. I had a GCSE kid in at lunch yesterday who seemed stressed. I spent some time helping him relax and reminding him how important rest, exercise and down time is. His response "my mum says I don't seem stressed enough".

I hate May.

DecomposingComposers · 22/05/2019 07:25

Decomposing composers is this a primary or secondary school?

Some points relate to primary, some to secondary, some to both.

SugarPlumLairy2 · 22/05/2019 14:46

There’s some good points raised about the parents who are sending kids to school unprepared due to toilet training, speech, boundaries etc.
About the kids not knowing how to play. Exam results, the whole government pressure on schools, parents pressures on kids etc.

I have to clarify that whilst some kids genuinely are coming from backgrounds were basics aren’t being taught, some of these issues can be undiagnosed SENS. It’s a struggle for all either way. And if you know parents aren’t teaching the necessities, you know they aren’t invested in things like play.

For the kids whose parents aren’t teaching them the basics, who may even be caring for their siblings, the need to play, just be a child, at school, is very necessary.

Our primary is a very mixed bag. At one end we have the “high achievers, with a class after school every day, Maths tuition on Saturday, sports on Sunday. Some of these kids look exhausted, some that i know personally have begged to stop, they want to go to the park with a mate but parents insist they must progress in their classes.

At the opposite end, the ones walking in with their younger siblings, streetwise, defensive, never with a parent, you see them doing the shopping after school wrangling bags and siblings. Never see them in school clubs or down the park. It’s heartbreaking. I know the schools have huge files on these kids and their home environments. Those kids ...who just need to be kids.

It’s a wide and varied spectrum.

We’ve always told our DD school is their safe place away from home. For some children I think school may be the only safe space they know.

Kids who feel safe, heard, rested, perform better. Breaktimes can make such a difference. I agree not for all, but looking at the survey and repeated results for MANY.

As an adult you know that you NEED a break at work, you look forward to it, having a chance to walk away at lunch means you can face the afternoon. And we’re adults, we already have the skills and our own power to stand up for ourselves, speak up BE HEARD, we’re ahead of the game compared to kids but my kord we NEED our breaks.

Kids are reporting back over repeated surveys that they NEED a break, they’ve actually said they don’t feel heard. We’re still not listening, and if we are we dismiss them in same breath.

We have it reported, reviewed, surveyed again years later and they keep telling us the same thing; we ask too much of them at school, they need a break.. and we are still ignoring them to say other things take priority. That is incredibly damaging to any child’s psyche, they have no individual power/voice and the adults they trust, the adults they tell, the adults who should advocate for them don’t take them seriously. They have more important things to deal with...imagine being the children kid who knows they aren’t important.

If a child can’t trust/respect an adult you WILL see bad behaviour. If you arbitrarily remove break time, you will see bad behaviour AND broken trust. And trust, once broken, is hard to regain. That’s a difficult environment to teach in. That’s not fair to teachers or students.

Hence I believe strongly that it should be discussed at a higher level.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 22/05/2019 14:59

How will this petition get it discussed at a higher level? It’s not an official government petition that will trigger a debate in parliament.

DecomposingComposers · 22/05/2019 15:37

As an adult you know that you NEED a break at work, you look forward to it, having a chance to walk away at lunch means you can face the afternoon

Yes, I look so forward to my 15 minute break, which is all I get.

SugarPlumLairy2 · 22/05/2019 15:45

As adults we should want better for our children.

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ChopinIn10Minuets · 22/05/2019 16:03

Volunteers are free staff. They alienated so many parents.
I used to go in, at their request, to read with kids, help with spellings etc. I’d turn up on time and they’d say oh we haven’t got the kids ready, oh can you give us a minute, oh we dont know which lists you should be working from. Many a time I’d sit there for an hour but might only have ONE child sent out. I used to volunteer and do their photocopying, book covering etc. Anything to help. It was always badly organised.

I hear you about the volunteering. I used to listen to readers and work in the school library, and one particularly busy day when I'd done the lot and had two full year groups go through the library, I was approached by my DS's class teacher, out in the corridor in full earshot of passers-by, because the stupid cow wanted to talk RIGHT NOW about allegations that my DS had bullied someone. Shock

Soon after that I figured they were taking advantage of women like me who were desperate to fill the gaps in their CVs. I got a checkout job, not especially exciting, but at least I was getting paid. Grin

(Interestingly enough, looking at their website, there's been a fair few staff changes in the last few years and none of the really annoying, arrogant or past-their-best staff members are there any more.)

Tmartnmum · 22/05/2019 16:15

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Tmartnmum · 22/05/2019 16:45

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DecomposingComposers · 22/05/2019 16:55

SugarPlumLairy2

I was just commenting on your generalisation.

fedup21 · 22/05/2019 16:56

If I wasn't able to keep a child in at break, what alternative punishments could be used?

I am also interesting to what people think are suitable sanctions? Specific things you would expect-not just a list of things you think are NOT suitable.

Tmartnmum · 22/05/2019 17:03

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Doogleblue123 · 22/05/2019 17:09

Gobsmacked!

“ If I wasn't able to keep a child in at break, what alternative punishments could be used?”

So you do know the value that children put on break times in order to use taking them away as an effective punishment. It’s sickening to be honest. Why do you think children end up begging their parents not to send them to school? One school I know goes a step further in the sickening stakes and actually humiliates children by making them walk up and down on a line in the playground while everyone else is able to play around them. Is that ok?

Tmartnmum · 22/05/2019 17:13

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Passtherioja · 22/05/2019 17:15

@SugarPlumLairy2 -with all due respect you are making out that the majority of children in all the schools in the country are kept in at break time and lunchtime and barely get time for anything other than to eat in a daily basis. This is simply untrue and misleading.

Until you have information regarding the length of breaktimes in all school, broken down for KS1, KS2 and high schools then you are just jumping on a bandwagon trying to say this is because of the thousands of poor children who get no break time or lunchtime, when in actual fact this is clearly an issue re: your child. She may have missed some break/lunch time due to the poor behaviour of other class members (I assume you checked that out with the teacher that she was completely innocent in proceedings), she may have had to rush her lunch but this is not typical for the VAST majority of children in schools-you are misleading people.

To state that children are misbehaving because they do not trust the adults in school is downright insulting to the many hardworking teachers who have commented on this thread (and those too busy to I do!) You appear to know more than the teachers, the parents of teachers and the parents who are saying they have no issue. I would suggest that your insistence that this is linked to helping all the children get a proper break is nonsense. Your daughter's school aren't meeting the requirements of her EHCP-you either take steps to ensure they do or move her to somewhere that will ...but don't assume you know something about how schools across the entire country should be run based upon your very limited experience and very limited knowledge.

The children in most schools are well supported, well loved and well taught by very dedicated and hardworking staff who are, quite frankly getting a tad fed up of being told how to do their jobs by people who have no real idea what they're talking about.

noblegiraffe · 22/05/2019 17:19

It’s sickening to be honest

Do you say the same thing to every parent who confiscates something or stops a child from doing something fun as a punishment?

DecomposingComposers · 22/05/2019 17:22

Passtherioja

👏 👏👏👏

Tmartnmum · 22/05/2019 17:25

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SugarPlumLairy2 · 22/05/2019 17:38

ChopinIn10minutes I hear you, we lost lots of volunteers for our fundraisers due to the staff just taking the mickey. Lost lots of volunteers too because well... it was just wasted time. 😔 which is a shame because all the goodwill was there.

We had a terrible Ofsted inspection, I was there when the word went up and was trying to read in a corridor with a child while teachers bustled about putting up posters and fairy lights. Not sure what kids were doing... it was noisy though.

Shortly after that there was an audit and we lost quite a lot of the less than helpful staff....
things are looking up with the new crew👍 Sometimes change is good 😊

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