To want all kids to have a proper break time in school?

[SugarPlumLairy2]

AIBU to think my dd should have sufficient time during lunch to actually eat her lunch?

My DD has additional needs and goes to a mainstream school. She has an EHCP in which she MUST have movements breaksthroughout the day. Usually the school useplay time/lunch for these breaks.

So I am fed up of her coming out of school, hungry, on verge of meltdown, anxious etc. Because there wasn’t time to have a movement break AND lunch. Other parents (SENS and Mainstream) have complained of the same, kids being held back because someone is messing about so WHOLE class has to wait. They miss break in the morning , Miss part or all of lunch break as punishment/to complete class work /practice lining up neatly etc. No afternoon break routinely scheduled . I’m fed up.
So many parents complaining of same thing too. Those breaks are really important for the kids to let off steam and rest before afternoon classes. And then when they are wired etc in the afternoon the teachers have to deal with the fallout. How is this helping anyone?

So this petition hit my Facebook and I have signed it. AIBU to ask you all to have a look and sign/share too? Please.

Our kids are under so much pressure in school, at least let them have a decent lunch.

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/legislate-for-90-minutes-playtime-in-a-school-day-and-make-removal-of-it-illegal?source=facebook-share-button&time=1558197250

Forkit you do realise that schools in London get thousands of pounds per pupil per year more than the rest of the country?

Many, many small primary schools only have 4 or 5 teachers on the books, let alone 3 members of non teaching SLT. There is nothing left to cut.

And many parents don't value playtime. Our school champions a rich, varied curriculum, lots of outdoor play and work, but the school up the road that does nothing but SATs prep for years on end is the one with a waiting list.

There is the problem isn’t it. Parents that value academic success and schools that push this onto kids above all else. We have been brainwashed. Let me tell you that dealing with your child that has mental health issues because of school is one of the worst aspects of parenting. School and education welfare gang up on you and you know your child is genuinely upset and distressed by going to school. We need to take a long hard look at what is going on in schools and how this is impacting our children. This is s very serious issue. It might not be happening to you but it’s happening all over the country and often parents are left with no support to help them deal with it

Our kids deserve break times. They’re kids. Not adults.

Funding in schools is far more complex than just how good they are at managing budgets.

Income depends on many factors - how many students, how many PP students, how many students have an EHCP, how the MAT distributes money between its schools, how much it top slices from the budget...

A school has to pay the first £6000 ISH of any SEN provision. Each pupil gets £4500 ISH per year, so straight away there is a £1500 deficit before you've paid for any education. So a school with a high number of SEN students is going to be in a more challenging position financially than a school with fewer SEN pupils.

That's just one example. I set budgets as a governor and the expenses that a school has are an eye opener. Old buildings cost more to maintain. Fire alarms, burglar alarms cost thousands to install and maintain.

Funding for schools has remained flat for years while outgoings have been going up - bills, wages, pension contributions. That all comes out of the budget.

Staffing was over 90% of our budget and there is only so far you can cut that, hence why many schools now employ NQTs - they are cheaper. That leaves 10% of your budget where most savings have to come from.

All schools are aware that Ofsted will look at finance management and there is huge pressure to not set a deficit budget. Of course some schools won't manage finances well but they won't get away with it for long. Some schools have a top heavy SLT but they will be made to justify it.

This is just a tiny snap shot of school finance. It is hugely complex and it is over simplistic to just say manage better.

To pick up on a point raised by other posters, increasingly we are seeing children who don't know how to play. Naice middle class children from stable homes with graduate parents who don't know how to play unsupervised games for more than 10 minutes without adult intervention. Given that schools, in the face of such poor socialisation, need to commit extra manpower to manage playgrounds in a way that would be unthinkable 20 years ago, no wonder that their response is to cut playtime.

Have you read the report? It isn’t about MY kid in particular. I related my personal experiences to show support and understanding of the reports findings.

I've skimmed all 115 pages - it's pretty typical of education research.

I still think this is a problem mainly with your school and your child.

And many parents don't value playtime. Our school champions a rich, varied curriculum, lots of outdoor play and work, but the school up the road that does nothing but SATs prep for years on end is the one with a waiting list.

Though it could just be the areas we've live in UK and where we have friends and family haven't been near school’s obsessive about SATS - parents tend to look wider than that.

There are also green spaces and parks and after school settings have outdoor spaces and larger numbers of children tend to play out more than I did as a child.

We have in this area high schools with near identical intakes being run in wildly different ways, the extreme end has near zero breaks, police presence often, behaviour is wild and a really poor range of GCSE options. Half a mile away, no more deprived or in a worse area other schools are largely operating as normal high schools still. A few ups and downs as you’d expect in east London but you’d send your child there.

If one is a school you’d be prepared to send your child to and one isn’t, I’d be exceptionally surprised if the have ‘near identical intakes’. It just doesn’t work like that. If there’s a ‘sink school’ avoided by the parents with an interest in education, who do you think ends up there? It’s easy but facile to simply blame the leadership for the police presence.

LoafofSellotape how do they justify 20 minutes lunchtime and 10 minute break? I’m totally shocked

FOR anyone who wants to use money as an excuse!

outdoorclassroomday.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/05/Outdoor-Classroom-Day-Playtime-matters-report-May-2019-.pdf

See the conclusion

Doogleblue123 No idea. I was more concerned about lunch being so late when Ds started. All the secondary schools are the same locally.

There seem to be some posters on here who clearly have all of the answers when it comes to setting budgets and balancing them.

How about you volunteer to become a school governor? You'll get to set the priorities, set the budget and decide exactly where the money gets spent.

Then you can make longer lunchtimes and make any other changes that you want (and decide what gets cut in order to pay for the longer lunch breaks). It's the way to change things.

Decomposing Composers what about the parents who have to pay child care and how shorter days are affecting their finances?

Doogleblue123

Yes, it's terrible. Cuts are affecting lots of people and it's awful. I don't disagree.

But schools cannot get blood out of a stone. The money has run out.

They could cut back staff even more - collapse classes in primary school so, in the unlikely event, you have 20 students in year 3,4 and 5 you could amalgamate 3 classes of 20 into 2 classes of 30 mixed year groups and loose a teacher.

In secondary you could almagamate 2 or 3 classes of 30 students in say maths, put them in the hall and have 1 teacher teach 90 students, lecture style?

Do you think parents would go for that? Then you could have an hour's lunch break every day.

Maybe I should delete this before the DfE see it and think it's a great idea.

FOR anyone who wants to use money as an excuse!

Money is not being used as an excuse. There just is none. Schools can’t pay for things out of thin air.

Do you not think though, a lot of money (supposedly) is being spent on the result of a problem (Mental health) and not the actual cause. Like I think I said before I have invitations to dozens of workshops run at school in the evening about how to help a child with anxiety etc. They can’t be cheap to run

If it’s directed about me being a school governor, I did eleven years. I think that’s doing my bit. Across a school I was SLT in and my own children’s for a few years so balanced both. Of course if I can contribute I do, I don’t just make things up and I have stepped up. Although I stopped my husband started and still does.

Are those saying it’s impossible also stepping up to help.

OhForkItThen

Is that to me? Yep. 20 years a school governor - primary and secondary.

DecomposingComposer you keep describing the sort of people we should be in order to have these opinions, volunteers and governors etc. I have already explained I AM that person, heavily involved in supporting our school.
I give up a lot of time and effort to fundraise for our school and support them.

My husband has been a school governor(Finance) since yr1 . Regardless of being a school governor, his job in has him dealing directly with countless schools in financial difficulties, mainly overspending on equipment they dont need, have lost, or just not usedaccruing substantial debt, he does his best to assist with these matters and it’s why he applied to be a governor.

We see the issues, and not just in our schools, we put in the effort to make a difference, but when schools are not managing their budgets we are allowed to speak up.

We can be pedantic about details, say it’s ONLY my issue, only my school, there are more important things etc. But we have reports showing that quality play IS an issue, surely that should be discussed at least?
Even if someone reads the petition and thinks “90 minutes?! Stuff and nonsense! 60 is fine” they could still sign it knowing that many kids aren’t even getting 60. If any change were considered it may still fall short of the original petition.

Why are we self censoring on which subjects we can ask the government to review?

Oh, and it's not impossible. Very few things are. It's about deciding priorities. Of course you can re instate hour long lunch break - at a cost. The problem is where you recoup that money from. What is less of a priority?

Decomposing composure at the end of the day the biggest cost is to my children’s mental health and you can’t really put a price on that. Let them have a decent break. They’re the ones suffering so schools can get the academic results. At the end of the day it’s the parents picking up the pieces

But then you know the issue OP.

The 2 schools that I know of that are in financial difficulty certainly aren't there through mismanagement. The reasons are external and complex

Not allowed to carry forward budget surplus to cushion difficult years

Very low birth rate for 5 years across the borough followed by very high birth rates. No planning or contingency by LA to support schools that had declining intake followed by rapid expansion

Very old school buildings need a lot of expenditure.

Considered a wealthy borough for funding but actually taking in lots of students from neighbouring boroughs with high levels of deprivation.

Expensive area to live and so recruitment is difficult. Have to pay higher salaries to attract staff.

No loans or debts to pay. No expensive new equipment. As soon as we could we took service level agreements away from LA and to cheaper providers.

All stuff that your DH is aware of I'm sure.su

Doogleblue123

No one is putting a price on health.

We cut our lunch breaks to have a half day on Friday to cut cover for PPA time. We could change it back.

How shall we pay for cover instead? What else can be cut?

And schools don't like this obsession with targets and grades. It's awful. But if schools don't keep up they are put into special measures, head is sacked, governors are removed and the school is stuck in a MAT - which is even more finance driven so it gets even worse.

I wish someone would change it but I don't think it will be individual schools.

DecomposingComposer , like you I know SOME of the issues, and sadly the ones our family have seen and experienced, through involvement with school and contact with other parents, do include mismanagement of funds/time.
There ARE other reasons too, and I will always agree that our schools and our children are under a lot of pressure from already insufficient funding and continuous cuts to budgets.

In no way am I knocking the schools, even where funds are mismanaged, ask my husband, he is furious that we as a society expect educators to be administrators. That’s not whattheytrainedforor signed up to do (Some of the funding these schools take out for equipment .... they just have no idea. 😱)

We can support schools in any ways but all children need a voice and it’s not ok to ignore that they NEED time to decompress and take lunch.

Absolutely. Completely agree.

How will you pay for it? Only I have no clue but will willingly take your suggestions forward.

OP You are being unreasonable to tell us to look at it and even if we think “stuff and nonsense 60 minutes is fine” we should sign it anyway? I don’t think that people should look at your petition and do that . I think that you should understand everyone will have a different opinion and is allowed to voice that and choose not to sign.

Because if by some bloody miracle I sign it anyway and the petition works and 90 minutes play is brought back, I will have to help My children get through those horrendous 90 minutes a day of loneliness and awkwardness and sadness of being on their own. Why should I just sign anyway? Everyone can read it and then decide for themselves.

For those that really need it, a learning plan can be put in place for a child to have movement breaks.

But also I will never sign because of the utter shite that was you saying we should be teaching children social skills to get through playtime because they’ll need them as an adult and your child gets social skills classes!!!! How lucky for you that your kid gets them as not everyone does. And all ASD kids will be different so no they won’t all just learn the skills. Just like some kids will never speak or live independently even if we’d like them to.
Please be sensitive to everyone’s needs not just your own opinions. A healthy debate is allowed, everyone here is being polite but we can all read the petition and decide for ourselves......

There are too many children for whom breaks are a hell of ostracisation, bullying, and isolation. Increase the length of that torture? No thanks.