To have told 6yo the truth.

[malm275]

Sorry it's a party/invite kind of thread....

DD is celebrating her 6th birthday next week. Every party that she has had so far has been a massive family/friends event with at least 30+ children to cater for. This year things are a bit tighter financially so dd is having a small cinema party with 6 invited guests from school and a couple from out of school that we are particularly close to. Dd is delighted and so excited. And we are massively relieved I'm getting whinged at left,right and centre by the 'uninvited' but that's a different thread
The one thing I asked dh to do this week was give the school invitations directly to parents and not give them to the teacher to hand out. Which he promptly did. Again, another thread Wouldn't necessarily be a huge problem but there is a girl at school, who will call herself dd's best friend, but actually is mean, pushy and very dominating over my daughter. And many other children School are aware and I have been trying to give my daughter the tools to deal with this kind of behaviour.
Long story short, she has been awful to dd this week about not being invited (she has never been invited to any of dd's parties anyway). Dd has left school in tears every day because this girl has been pressuring her each day for an invite, I know that I'm not bu to leave her out, dd doesn't want her there and I have given dd the option to just add her to the list, which was thankfully met with a very firm no, so I said we would just have to ride this one out and that dd didn't have to feel bad about her right decision. I floated the idea of inviting girl round for a play date to see if we could do some kind of relationship building but dd was unsure and I don't blame her, I don't really want this girl invading dd's safe space at home.
So anyway, this girl came out of school on Friday and asked me very loudly 'can I come to dd's party'. I replied 'no, sorry not this time'.
She asked why and I said 'because you are not very kind to dd'
Girl then burst into tears and ran off to her mum who gave me a filthy look as did half of the playground I went to go and talk to her but she walked off before I got there and I wasn't going to chase after her. I've always dealt with school with these matters they have asked me not to approach mum as they like to deal with things and have never even spoken to this girls mum as we are not normally on the playground for the same pick ups.
It's been on my mind all weekend. Girl obviously has some issues (not SEND as far as I know- but obviously I would never like to assume) and I try to be understanding of this but felt like I just wanted her to be told the truth about her behaviour for once and realise a consequence. Should I have just sugared the pill, said that it was a little party and not everyone could have an invite? That I couldn't afford it?
I work in a school and think that I am just getting so wound up with the constant pandering around some children and parents there that maybe I took out my frustration on this little girl.

So. The school haven't dealt with the bullying? And this girl still thinks she's your daughters best friend?

Then the school are to blame. Is that what is being claimed? For not dealing with the bullying? For not separating the girls, not calling the other girls mum in for meeting.

This should have all been dealt with. Long ago.

OP's dd came crying ever day last week. So what did the teacher say? When op contacted her last week, about that?

She's 6??? No that was a horrible thing to do plus we only have your side. Who knows if your daughter hasn't brahged about the party to this girl?

winniestone37

FFS we only EVER have the OP side, why do people continually post CRAP about only have 'one side of the story'

The OP wasn't rude or harsh. The only reason the child cried is because someone told NO and she didn't like it or is used to being told NO.

So what if the child was upset, she can now learn from it and so can the so called mother.

Parents need to parent not pander their children otherwise the children do grow up to be nasty bully's because they nothing else.

I don't think the OP was U at all. She worded her reason relatively mildly. IMO a 6 year old is well old enough to understand about being kind. Sounds as if the child burst into tears largely because of not getting what she wanted.

My Gdd who is rather younger, certainly understands the need to be kind, and is still kind to an autistic friend who sometimes lashes out at her.

For what it’s worth OP I don’t think you did anything wrong. It’s not like you were nasty to the kid, she was cheeky and entitled enough to ask for an invitation from you after your DD repeatedly said no, and then to demand to know why not!! She’ll only have cried (if it wasn’t crocodile tears) because she’s not used to not getting her own way.

Yanbu, have two little children in DD class like this and not just to her they are a terror to atleast 6 children (from parents I have spoken to) given the school chance after chance to correct it and doesn’t change ... these kids go as far as to stamp on the kids fingers and just randomly push them over when walking about or in the yard etc my DD now does it back she had a row off the teacher one time ah if she did the teacher had the truth in front of most parents including the kid who done it! Why do people think it’s acceptable for kids to bullies just because they’re ‘young’! I will not tolerate it whatever they’re age, and these 2 children will definitely not be getting and invite to her birthday party! I even know at one party they went to, one of them stuck their hand in the birthday boys cake and all his mother said was ‘boys will be boys’

I bet she did harangue/pressure dd all week for where her party invite was. Understandable
No it's not understandable, its plain rude.
Would you do this to a work colleague? I bloody hope not.

OP I reckon you did the right thing.fwiw

I really don't think a short, firm statement, answering a repeated and persistent question, constitutes either bullying or berating.

It is a shame the 6 year old's mother allowed this to continue without check until OP felt they had no alternative, if the 6 year old was upset about the answer she got. Perhaps the 6 year old's mother might learn something from this - e.g. to not allow her 6 year old to nag for an invite. Which in turn, might mean that the 6 year old might learn something from this. Like some manners.

I don't think you have been unreasonable. 6 year olds are old enough to understand how they are behaving and what the consequences would be. I wish I had to guts to do the same. My 4 year old has a 'friend' who she complains about every day. This girl is dominating, rude and jealous of my DD. And it's not because I am blindly believing what my DD has told me. I have myself seen her shouting at my DD, controlling what she is doing, snatching things from my DD or throwing a tantrum if she doesn't get what my DD has and pushing her. So many times has this girl made my DD cry. Her mum just stands there like a wet lettuce and rarely even tells her daughter to stop her behaviour. She herself has admitted that her daughter can be not very nice and I suspect expects other people to parent her daughter as she can't be bothered getting into a fight with her. It's getting on my nerves now and I am biting my tongue as to not say anything harsh to this kid. For now I am just telling my DD that good friends don't behave like this and this girl is not your friend and not play with her if you don't want to. I don't know what else to do about it. I am so glad they will be going to different schools.

@Aguamenti if I saw my daughter being treated like that I wouldn't bite my tongue.
There is nothing wrong with you going over and telling her that that's horrible and if she can't play nice she's not to play with your daughter.

@WillLokireturn
I quote the OP:
"DD is celebrating her 6th birthday next week. Every party that she has had so far has been a massive family/friends event with at least 30+ children to cater for. (...) Long story short, she has been awful to dd this week about not being invited (she has never been invited to any of dd's parties anyway)."

You are aware that we just getting one side of the story here, yes?

OP also said the girls have only known eachother for the last two school years and OP has never thrown an entire class party leaving one child out.

@Yolande7
That was a weird post of yours to tag me into.
You must be aware it is MN and we only ever get the side all OPs post- this was asking for views/ advice.
So Yolande are you indicating you don't believe this one OP but do all the zillions of other OPs on their threads 🙄 even though there would be little other reason for OP to not invite that child other than her being unkind to her DD, given how consistent OPs posts are about this incident. Not really sure where your point is. I'd rather you just state your post and not tag me when it's unrelated to my post.
If you don't believe an OPs post, move on...

Also see above PP

YANBU to not invite people. YABU telling a child she’s mean to your daughter. My 6 year old daughter is SEN. I haven’t informed the whole class she is SEN as it’s none of their business. A simple “we can only have a few friends to the party” would have been fine. My daughter takes an invite to equal someone likes her and no invite to mean they hate her; very black and white. Parties are my nightmare but one that I try my best to deal with.

@user1496259972 again if your child goes mouthing off to an adult that's not their problem.

And if your child is upsetting a child every single day her SEN is not their problem.

I don't think you were unreasonable. She was rude enough to question you about why she wasn't invited, and deserved to hear the truth.

why is it rude to asked why she hasn't been invited?! kids that age have no filters and will ask questions that we as adults feel are awkward.

You could argue that, at that age, asking once is not the rudest thing to do - but this child has been pestering the OP's child all week, so her child has come out of school in tears every day, then asked the OP for her invitation, and when told 'No, sorry, not this time', she still demanded to know why.

That, to me, is very different to 'a kid with no filter, asking questions we as adults would find awkward', @FrenchJunebug.

"A simple “we can only have a few friends to the party” would have been fine."

How about a simple 'No, sorry, not this time', @user1496259972 - which is exactly the answer that the OP gave when the child asked where her invitation was - a response that was not accepted by the child concerned.

And surely, if your child has SEN that the rest of the class and parents don't know about, you would be alert for situations where their SEN might lead them into behaviours that other parents would see as rude, and might risk a sharp response to your child - you wouldn't let them pester the adults for party invitations - or at the very least, you'd jump in and redirect your child if they did approach another child's parent for a party invite. The mum of this girl watched the interaction and didn't intervene.

@Contraceptionismyfriend I do support my daughter through this and make it clear that her friends behaviour is not acceptable. I have told her that she should play with other kids instead of this girl but she is kind of stuck with her. All her old friends have left nursery and the rest have their own friends. I am try to teach her how to stand up for herself . We also had a discussion with her and her teacher and now she goes to an adult to tell them when this girl has upset her. On one hand i want to intervene as it's hard to see my own child being treated like this. I am someone who never got bullied because I always stood up for myself and my daughter is not like that. Soon the other hand I am hoping she learns how to deal with people who have difficult personalties with the tools I am giving her. If it still happens then I will stop the other girl myself.

and I have noticed most kids don't have behaviour problem, they have a parenting problem in which the parents let the kids 'run the roost' . It's ok at home if that rocks their boat but unacceptable if they go on behaving like this with others. Other people do not have to tolerate crappy behaviour from these kids.

I am quite honestly shocked by some of the responses on this thread. The level of expectation and judgement being placed on a 6 year old child is extraordinary!!

We are talking about a situation where an adult caused a 6 year old (who she doesn't know particularly well/ have much of an existing relationship with) to cry in the middle of the school car park!

If there are serious problems between this child and the OP's DD, they should be addressed through appropriate channels, by an adult who has a) witnessed the behaviour b) is able to make an impartial/ objective assessment of the situation and its full context c) has a relationship with the child who needs to be spoken to, and is able to address the behaviour in a way that the child is likely to be able to understand.

We are talking about a situation where an adult caused a 6 year old (who she doesn't know particularly well/ have much of an existing relationship with) to cry in the middle of the school car park!

Maybe her crying was because she didn't get the invite that she was after?

What if OP had repeatedly said "not this time" and the girl persisted? Should OP have given in and invited her just to avoid upsetting her?

The mum should have stepped in. How many times should OP answer the question before it doesn't become unacceptable to say "No"?

No, we're talking about a situation in which a six year old cried at the response she received in regards to a question she had asked, which was a perfectly valid response that a six year old could understand. She was not invited to the party (which she had been told numerous times but refused to accept) because she was not very kind to the other six year old. (Who, incidentally, had been brought to tears by this six year old every day for a number of days).

If someone had said that to my daughter (which they wouldn't because she's been brought up to understand that no means no, which is a good lesson for any child to learn, and wouldn't keep asking), I'd certainly be asking my daughter what they meant by that. . . and from the sounds of it, telling my daughter she got exactly what she deserved.

suspect if OP had said 'not enough spaces at the party' then the other girl would have upped her pestering, especially if she considered the OP's DD to be her best friend. I also suspect the tears are because she never gets told 'no'. There are several children of my acquaintance who break out the crocodile tears at the first indication that things aren't going their way, because they know its an easy way to get what they want. They haven't been taught that 'no means no', they have learnt that 'no means maybe if they keep pestering'. Tears are part of their arsenal to get what they want.

In this case the little girl has been let down by her parents and the school, who both should have sorted this out months ago. But OP's DD is also a little girl, who has also been badly upset, over a much longer period of time. The OP didn't hector, berate or shout at the little girl, she answered her question honestly, protecting her own daughter and acknowledging her own daughter's upset. The only way that this little girl was going to be satisfied, accepting and happy was if she was given an invitation, anything else would have made her sad/cry. All that would have done is to teach her that her awful behaviour was the way to get what she wants, that she can continue making other children cry and pestering adults. OP's DD would have to have someone who makes her miserable at a very small birthday party.

I don't think it does children any favours to think they can get their own way all of the time, to never get any negative feedback and to never have the shock of coming up against disapproval for their behaviour. I think the mother of this girl is doing her a disservice not teaching her social rules and boundaries. OP's comment is natural consequences for behaviour - act unpleasantly and the consequence is that people don't want you in their house.

No, not this time, sorry would have been a perfectly valid response. But that's not what happened. What the OP did was criticise the child - a general criticism of her person - without pointing to a specific behaviour. That is what is not ok.