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AIBU?

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Original poster

What on earth is going on in America??

878 replies

Nanny0gg · 15/05/2019 10:27

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48275795

How can a supposedly 'civilised' society pass such a retrograde law?

And other states following suit?

OP posts:
Quintella · 15/05/2019 15:34

What if you have a 2-year-old and lose your job and you're unable to find another one? Does it then become acceptable to kill your child because he/she is an inconvenience?

People like you always start out tying to sound oh so reasonable but the batshittery doesn't take long to start pouring forth, does it? God help any vulnerable woman who comes under your 'care'.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 15/05/2019 15:41

Did you know that 70% of rape victims who become pregnant choose to keep the baby? I've been privileged to meet one of these hero mums.

Yes, but it's their choice.

Women must have a choice what to do with their Bodie.

agnurse · 15/05/2019 15:41

It's actually not that big of a stretch.

There are people who believe in "post-birth abortion", sometimes up to age 2.

Many people, myself included, not only want abortion to be illegal, but want to eliminate the conditions that encourage women to see abortion as their only option. Namely, by ensuring that women have access to what they need to have a healthy pregnancy and to be able to raise their children or place them for adoption.

isabellerossignol · 15/05/2019 15:42

NO ONE is saying that you need to raise a baby you can't afford. You can place the baby for adoption.

I'm in my 40s with children already. Say that theoretically I found out I was pregnant. I am still suffering, physically and mentally, from my previous pregnancies. 1) how do I get from the stage of finding out I am pregnant to handing the theoretical baby over for adoption without going through the absolute physical and mental torture of pregnancy and birth? 2) how do I explain to my existing children that I have had a baby but it has now disappeared?

A baby at this stage of life would not just ruin my life, it would probably cause my marriage to break down and it would ruin my children's lives too. They would be devastated if I announced I was pregnant. And the strain on their parents relationship, and the possible breakdown of it, wouldn't be a walk in the park for them either.

I hate the way it is framed as selfish women who just can't be arsed changing a few nappies.

Unwanted pregnancies often cause relationships to break down. And so does the refusal to have sex due to fear of pregnancy. Women are often in a no win situation.

agnurse · 15/05/2019 15:43

The thing is, an unborn child is not the mother's body.

You could argue, "Well, it's dependent on her". Yes, but so is a newborn. So is a young child. Many people are dependent on their caregivers. Does that mean that their caregivers have the right to destroy them because it isn't convenient?

agnurse · 15/05/2019 15:43

The thing is, an unborn child is not the mother's body.

You could argue, "Well, it's dependent on her". Yes, but so is a newborn. So is a young child. Many people are dependent on their caregivers. Does that mean that their caregivers have the right to destroy them because it isn't convenient?

agnurse · 15/05/2019 15:45

Let's say that you have two children. An armed gunman comes to the door and tells you that you have a choice. He will shoot you, and you may or may not survive, or he will kill one of your children. Your choice.

Would you find it acceptable to allow him to kill one of your children so that you can still be around for the other one?

For the record, I have seen a woman place a baby for adoption when she had other children she was raising. It's a thing.

Tunnockswafer · 15/05/2019 15:45

Don’t be silly agnurse. If the career of a newborn doesn’t want to do that they can give the baby to someone else. If a pregnant women doesn’t want to carry a baby, can she do the same? You know those are different scenarios.

specterlitt · 15/05/2019 15:46

Sharia law - Christian style!

What does this even mean Hmm

In Sharia Law, abortion is permissible if the child or mother is at risk, child is of a rapist etc. So, no what Alabama has done is not even close to Sharia, there's always exceptions and considerations. Please think before you type.

The US has just shown the world it is going backwards, and once again it's women who are at the end of it. Imagine if there was a law that meant all men would have to get the snip, and only when they wanted children would they be allowed to reverse it. It's fucking disgusting and ridiculous. There's no need for religious influence in a democratic society. Live by your choice of religion by all means, but do not use your own personal beliefs as grounds to dictate what others can or cannot do with their bodies. Although no one ever dictates what men can do, it's only women who are subjected to these trials and tribulations!

Quintella · 15/05/2019 15:46

The thing is, an unborn child is not the mother's body.

As long as it's in her body it is.

SaskiaRembrandt · 15/05/2019 15:47

You should know that actually, an unborn child can be owed a duty of medical care. As a nurse, I can be sued for negligence up to 21 years after the birth of a child. The parents can sue on the child's behalf up to 18 years afterward, and the child has an additional three years to sue. How can a duty of care be owed to a "non-prson"?

after the birth of a child The crucial part of this paragraph. A foetus does not have the legal right to sue.

What's going on is that there is a recognition that the unborn child has rights.

No, an unborn foetus does not have rights.

It is incumbent on women to recognize that sex can lead to babies, no matter how careful you are. It's also incumbent on them to recognize that once you're pregnant, you already have a baby. Ending your child's life because it's not a good time for you to be pregnant is not an option.

Women are aware of this. And shouldn't men be too?

No you do not already have a baby if you are pregnant, you only have a baby once it is born. Foetuses are not the same as babies. As a nurse you should have a good enough understanding of reproductive biology to be aware of this.

No one is suggesting women should be able to end a child's life, children are not foetuses because they have already been born. Despite the emotive language used by forced birthers/pro-backstreet abortionists, no one is murdering babies, ending children's lives or doing anything to independent human beings living in the world.

Treaclepie19 · 15/05/2019 15:49

Horrific.
I haven't read the thread properly yet but just wanted to say thanks to those who agree that it should be illegal. I'm sure it would've been in my baby's best interests to be born extremely poorly (had he survived at all) rather than saying goodbye to him far too early.
...Or did you forget that TFMR is also an abortion issue?

@agnurse I think you'll find your 98% statistic may include more than you'd considered.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 15/05/2019 15:49

The thing is, an unborn child is not the mother's body

Nonsense.

My body, my decision.

Quintella · 15/05/2019 15:49

For the record, I have seen a woman place a baby for adoption when she had other children she was raising. It's a thing.

We all know it's a thing. And that's fine if that's what a woman decides that what she wants to do. But if she doesn't want to go through with the pregnancy for whatever reason, that's also fine. And no amount of ridiculous whataboutery scenarios will change sane minds on that.

Making abortion illegal does not lower the rate of abortion, it just lowers the rate of safe abortion.

agnurse · 15/05/2019 15:50

A fetus is a human being that is growing, taking in nutrients, developing, moving, and has its own unique chemical makeup distinct from the parent.

These are characteristics of an organism.

If a fetus is alive, and it's human, that means it is a human being.

Actually there ARE people who want to see post-birth abortion legalized, potentially up to age 2.

SaskiaRembrandt · 15/05/2019 15:50

What if you have a 2-year-old and lose your job and you're unable to find another one? Does it then become acceptable to kill your child because he/she is an inconvenience?

Possibly the single most ridiculous argument I have read here, or anywhere else for that matter.

agnurse · 15/05/2019 15:51

There is no guarantee that a child who is born healthy will remain healthy.

If your 2-year-old develops a very serious illness and requires extensive care, is it a humane and loving thing to smother them so that they won't suffer any more?

Quintella · 15/05/2019 15:51

If a fetus is alive, and it's human, that means it is a human being.

While it's in the woman's body, it's part of her body.

I can repeat this again if you like?

Quintella · 15/05/2019 15:52

If your 2-year-old develops a very serious illness and requires extensive care, is it a humane and loving thing to smother them so that they won't suffer any more?

Someone needs medical attention, and it's not a 2 year old...

isabellerossignol · 15/05/2019 15:53

Actually there ARE people who want to see post-birth abortion legalized, potentially up to age 2.

Well if there are (and I have never in my life seen this argument outside of a philosophy text book) they are very small in number and would be easily defeated if it came to trying to pass legislation.

agnurse · 15/05/2019 15:53

Actually, the rates of abortion substantially increased after abortion was legalized.

One of the physicians who was a major advocate for abortion admitted publicly that the statistics they gave back in the day were at best, gross exaggerations, and at worst, blatant lies.

They said that there were a million illegal abortions being performed annually, and 100,000 women dying from them. In actuality, there were about 100,000 abortions being performed annually, and about 2500 women dying from them.

You do also know that "safe, legal" abortion isn't always safe, correct? There can be permanent emotional and physiological consequences, up to and including the inability to carry a pregnancy in the future.

Treaclepie19 · 15/05/2019 15:54

@agnurse that is nowhere near the same.
With a lot of TFMR the baby isn't compatible with life outside of the womb.
So you'd rather they were born and died straight away than before? Just to prolong their suffering?

I'm going to leave now as I can't quite believe your opinions.

I would never have chosen to say goodbye to my little boy. I didn't have the choice. Him having a healthy life was not possible.

agnurse · 15/05/2019 15:54

There are millions of bacteria living in and on your body. You never consented to this - they started colonizing you at birth.

If you went to a physician and said you wanted medication to kill off all of these bacteria, you would be refused, as to do so would be extremely dangerous to your health.

There are limits to bodily autonomy.

Spinnaret · 15/05/2019 15:55

Gth1234

What utter crap! How dare you even mention the word safe, when it is you who wants to drive abortion back underground into backstreet clinics. Why is it better that actual living breathing women have to die in order to 'save' a foetus?

I notice you ignored my question about victims of rape. How can you actually justify forcing adolescents to give birth to their own sibling from paternal rape? If you can, you are very sick indeed.

What are your plans for the support and maintenance of all the additional babies? The contraceptive failures?

Leftielefterson · 15/05/2019 15:55

What is going on over there is bloody horrific. To pass a law that bans abortion when it was legal is archaic, regressive and posed a great threat to women who are fighting tooth and nail for equality.

NI’s situation is also awful, but, they haven’t suddenly passed new legislation banning abortions, it has always been the case that it was a no go, and some States in the US go even further applying jurisdictional extra-territoriality which means they could prosecute a woman who travels to another State or Country where abortion is legal. You could say the State is taking ownership of the ‘foetus’ in a weird, fucked up kind of way.

Maternity rights in the US are practicality non-existent, similarly there is no SMP over there so this act of barbarism will likely plunder more and more women into poverty as many cannot afford childcare costs and are forced to give up work.