What on earth is going on in America??

[Nanny0gg]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48275795

How can a supposedly 'civilised' society pass such a retrograde law?

And other states following suit?

Oh agnurse you're back. Great. Can you answer the questions people have been asking about how you eliminate the circumstances that make women feel abortion is their only option? I'll give you a quick run down to save you going back through the thread.

1. immediately life threatening complications of miscarriage where the foetus is not viable but still has a heartbeat
2. maternal mental health problems up to and including a desire to commit suicide rather than go through a pregnancy
3. rape
4. poverty

And for clarity on 3 &4 I don't mean 'we'll teach men not to do it and we'll change the law so that women can access more help financially' because none of that helps women right now.

The point is there are not these hundreds of thousands of unwanted children in the foster system who we can't provide for

And the relationship with draconian abortion bans (even for rape, etc) and a woman's right to decide about her own body is...?

Men can't even be forced to physically care for their own children, but women should carry these men's children regardless...

Less than 30% of children in the U.S. foster system are available for adoption.

That calls for an improvement in the US fostering and adoption system. It doesn't call for women to be forced to bear children they don't want just to put them into the same system.

Many couples wouldn’t be suitable for adoption or fostering anyway, however much you improved the system.

TooStressy - I got some "positive engagement" yesterday with a Christian woman in Florida why I waste my time arguing on FB I don't know . Knowing that I was unlikely to change her opinion - or mine my own - I went full-on in with the softly softly catchy monkey approach - for anyone watching but not participating as much as anything. I complimented her on raising her own children in such a positive manner but suggested not all children's upbringings might be as blessed. I said as I get older I see very bad things happen to very good people (in reference to rape + incest - but obviously this applies to just about fucking everything when you're female). I said I didn't have all the answers, but that the thought of the "very poor" not being to able to access help. She thanked me for my "respectful discussion" . I could easily have ranted at her, but like I say - I was doing this for the benefit of the lurkers.

As someone from N Ireland who was brought up in an evangelical churchI have some first hand experience of how people think. And the thing that continues to confuse me is that Christians believe that the vast vast majority of people will eventually spend eternity in hell. And unwanted children born into chaotic home lives to drug addict or prostitute mothers (to give just one example) do not have a great track record of turning into tee total God fearing church attending Christians. So when they are so keen to prevent abortion because life is precious, their beliefs mean that they want to do that safe in the knowledge that they are eventually condemning this poor innocent baby (their words) to eternity in hell. How is that compassion?

DonDada, well done! That is something at least. Yes, I suppose thinking of people watching and listening means maybe they will change their minds even if others don’t.

I think it's fair that pro-lifers don't change their minds about abortion in relation to themselves.
I have a problem when the religious views are inflicted on the population at large, with very different beliefs, and there's clear hypocrisy in relation to after birth.

When I was young and was still a practising Catholic I was in favour of abortion being legal for those who sought it.
Even now, I wouldn't do it myself unless in very extreme circumstances, although who can tell how they react when faced with the choice.
But it's certainly not a view that strict Catholics have. Even though abortion is legal here, they're still campaigning against it.

And what happens as well when the country is overrun with unwanted children will they start treating them like China did

Just read the article. Its chilling. The Hand Maidens Tale springs to mind

Abortion will just go underground and safe abortions will only be for the rich. Banning abortion doesnt stop it. Making society abhor it and make it unthinkable will not stop it. Have people learned nothing from our history. We will just have more woman die through illegal abortions.

Abortion will just go underground and safe abortions will only be for the rich

Again :(

Seen elsewhere. An modern-day underground railroad for women. Fucksake.

HEY Georgia, Alabama, Ohio and Texas women!

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No judgment. No questions.

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#TheMAAuntieNetwork,
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Feel free to share far and wide.

The point is, @agnurse, is that it DOESN’T matter. No woman is obliged to go through an unwanted pregnancy and all it entails in order or provide someone else with a child.

You’re frankly delusional if you think you’ll ever render abortion obsolete. It has existed in one form or another ever for as long as humanity has existed. No, the reality of making abortion illegal is not birth, it’s backstreet abortion. Already nearly half of all abortions worldwide occur in countries where it is illegal.

Pro life my ass.

I notice that none of the pro-lifers have commented on what they think should happen if a woman is in the position that she will die if she doesn’t have a termination. Google HELLP syndrome pro-lifers. It’s very real and affects many pregnant women around the world every year. As a previous sufferer of HELLP I have come across women on other forums who have had to have a termination to save their life.

next on the line for the bleeding hearts is the execution of the Alabama murderer of 4 yesterday. I expect that was wrong as well.

FB comment from a friend of a friend

"Are they going to charge men who masturbate for killing sperm?"

What’s the situation in the US when you go into labour or are pregnant with regards to going in hospital/needing medical assistance and not having a NHS when someone doesn’t have health insurance?
Isn’t also Donald Trump trying to pass it so that employers don’t have to include contraception in their health insurance packages?

Over here if you are pregnant and have no health insurance you are covered by Medicaid and CHIP. Don’t believe the horror stories in the British tabloids that people are left on the streets or that they won’t even put you in the ambulance without first taking payment.

The government cannot tell private companies what they can and cannot include in their health insurance packages. My employer, for example, shopped around and found a very good package for us as they want to keep the employees and also be attractive to job applicants. We ever have things like yoga included in ours. Where did you hear that the president is “trying to pass it so that employers don’t have to include birth control”? Never heard anything so ridiculous. Employers choose the packages that is affordable to them and also attractive to employees and potential employees. Donald Trump can’t pass anything without it first going through Congress.

@BritWifeInUSA
“where did you hear that the president is trying to pass it ... never heard anything so ridiculous”

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/01/14/federal-court-block-trump-birth-control-1099488

Amongst other websites.

BTW I didn’t say that he can dictate what that can or can’t have, just that they don’t have to no reply that it doesn’t have to go through certain procedures first, just that he is trying to.

Sorry my phone seems to have developed a delay and snuck in words of its own!

“BTW I didn’t say he can dictate what they can and can’t have, just that they don’t have to include it nor that it doesn’t have to go through certain procedures first, just that he is trying to pass it”

To me abortion was hypothetical as I had never had sex, been sexually assaulted, been pregnant, given birth or had a miscarriage. I see that same naiveté among the male legislators and their handmaidens, like agnurse, usually older women who have forgotten what it's like to be at risk of pregnancy or young religious women who have no experience of life and have never had sex.

This ^ I was never against abortion, but I used to be one of those people who thought it should only happen for a good reason - rape, foetal abnormality, maternal illness. Then I got older and had children of my own and realised the magnitude of it, and finally understood that the best reason for an abortion is that the woman does not wish to be pregnant. And I say that as someone who had easy pregnancies with good outcomes - ie: healthy, very much wanted babies.

Being pregnant, giving birth and raising a child are too important, and the consequences of getting it wrong are too serious, for it to be something anyone should be forced to do unless they really, really want to. The 'pro-lifers' keep saying they want to protect human lives, but as far as I am concerned, they seem to place little value on human life. if they did value it they wouldn't treat the whole process as if it was trivial.

next on the line for the bleeding hearts is the execution of the Alabama murderer of 4 yesterday. I expect that was wrong as well.

Are you, therefore, in favour of killing adult humans, but against killing proto-humans?
Why? Don't you find that hypocritical?

Although from what I understand, from what I am reading, the government can, and does, tell companies that they have to provide, and not by way of cost-sharing, birth control
www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/state-and-federal-contraceptive-coverage-requirements-implications-for-women-and-employers/