What on earth is going on in America??

[Nanny0gg]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48275795

How can a supposedly 'civilised' society pass such a retrograde law?

And other states following suit?

Honestly, I think we really need to look to our own shores here, because this sentiment doesn't come from nowhere, and it appears a party who stand for the rights of rich white men is about to seize even more power. This needs to be a wakeup call BIG STYLE!

As heartbreaking as I'm sure infertility is, it is not the responsibility of pregnant women to act as broodmares for infertile couples.

This! 100%

There are plenty of infertile parents who would love a baby. There are plenty of women who find themselves in difficult positions and don't want a baby. Pregnancy does not last forever. Why don't women who find themselves expecting see the pregnancy through and see how they feel when the baby comes.

It feels like a quote from the Handmaid's Tale.

Honestly, I think we really need to look to our own shores here, because this sentiment doesn't come from nowhere, and it appears a party who stand for the rights of rich white men is about to seize even more power. This needs to be a wakeup call BIG STYLE!
Whilst we absolutely cannot be complacent, particularly given the rise of the far-right in the UK, polling shows a large and growing pro-choice majority.

Let's hope it stays that way.

It’s Alabama. What would you expect?

And even thought the percentage is falling, 75 per cent of Americans are Christians.

Islington, it ain’t.

Its not just Alabama, its Virgina, Georgia, Missouri and lots of other states lining up to do the same. The issue here is that it massively impacts low income ethnic minority women, who can't just up and leave the state.

This, combined with terrible maternal health care and a really high % of infant deaths at birth due to medical negligence in those demographics, means that you haven't a fighting chance if you don't have the means to leave those states

Some religious groups think homosexuality Is apostasy - and the more enthusiastic of their faith push gay people off buildings. Misogyny is integral to this faith and, additionally, there is no getting out of it. Hand in your ticket and your life is in danger. I could go on.

Religion is not always nice. Better to be Cof E and believe in the Easter bunny - or nothing much at all.

There are plenty of infertile parents who would love a baby. There are plenty of women who find themselves in difficult positions and don't want a baby. Pregnancy does not last forever. Why don't women who find themselves expecting see the pregnancy through and see how they feel when the baby comes.

Here's a few reasons off the top of my head:

1. Pregnancy costs financially - time off work for doctors and midwife's appointments, pregnancy related conditions, vitamins.
2. Pregnancy is life limiting - it's one thing to stop living your life the way you want to - e.g. stop drinking, stop doing your sports etc, be throwing up or nauseous for however long and however bad when you want to be pregnant, another thing entirely when you do not want to be.
3. Pregnancy and child birth are not at all without physical risk, with the potential of it being terminal. It is extremely hard on the body.
4. For some women, adoption is not an option, because of their personal experiences with care or adoption.
5. As I understand it, public health care has been severely eroded, meaning, once again, the costs of being pregnant are to be met by the woman who may not have any ability to meet them?
6. An infertile couple's personal tragedy is not another woman's issue to resolve. Particularly when she may have to compromise or jeopardise herself and her family in the process.

When I was young and naïve I suppose with hindsight I was quite anti abortion. It wasn't until I went through pregnancy myself and realised that it was far far harder, emotionally and physically, than I had ever imagined it would be, that I realised just how barbaric forced pregnancy is. And it wasn't just for nine months, it was forever. I'm still in pain after almost 13 years. And that is as nothing compared with the emotional issues. Psychologically, dealing with serious illness (which I have also faced) scares me much less than the thought of facing another pregnancy.

What if the person being "asked" to sustain the pregnancy on behalf on the "loving and caring prospective adoptees" is frankly, a bit of a shit-head? Doesn't take her folic acid, has lots of unprotected sex, drinks too much, smokes, takes some pills, smokes weed - you get the picture.

Do i ) the prospective adoptive parents get to reject the potential FAS baby
ii) the "shit person" is forced to retain the FAS baby
iii) the state is forced to take on the FAS baby

Who wins? Who loses?

How do you stop the "shit-head" being a "shit-head"? Do we keep her in a nice hospital-style suite with other unwilling mums to ensure she keeps that previous package safe?

If we just got rid of religion and/or men, we could stop having to constantly fight to have control over our own bodies.

Just a thought...

Oh, that's the other issue, prosecution of the incubator if she engages in behaviour that could compromise the purity of her foetus to serve those 'loving' families. Straight outta Gilead.

isabellerossignol - I just wanted to say thank you for changing your mind and admitting to it! Sometimes I worry that people are becoming increasingly entrenched in their positions and will tie themselves in knots, and invent all kinds of conspiracies and alternative facts, rather than admit that they were wrong. So your post is really refreshing (save that I'm very sorry that you are still suffering).

It's terrifying, and the hypocrisy astounds me. DP works for a US company and so I get social media notifications from his colleagues and their wives, some of whom are evangelicals, and I have to confess to doing some stalking of their accounts because I'm morbidly fascinated by them. E.g. women not wearing trousers as they are immodest, posting about having sex whenever your husband demands it even if you don't feel like it.

One of them posted a video of a family wedding ceremony and the vows were all about submitting to the husband, accepting him as leader of the family etc. I guess if you've been conditioned to see yourself as your husband's property then bodily autonomy isn't such a concern The irony is that these people are very quick to condemn Muslims as being backwards, but don't see what they're 2 sides of the same coins as fanatical muslims.

And of course they're not going to vote for healthcare/support for these unwanted children. I had the misfortune of studying bad adoption practice in the States, with kids being switched around between families or African American kids being adopted by evangelical families and suffering dreadful emotional trauma as they're being raised by racists who think they are doing God's work by saving them.

I read the other day that the only reason that abortions are allowed is because the foetuses are used for experiments and vaccines. If this is the case there should be transparency....some women might think twice.

Here's a thought for infertile couples.
Women, get shagged by a fertile man! Hey presto. Much easier than forcing a woman to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.

Perhaps we should ban all laws influenced by religion. Perhaps only those it directly affects should have any say in the matter.
Leave it up to those who get pregnant, not those who do the impregnating to decide.
Personally I can't support any anti female legislation.

What are they going to do to stop makes from getting women pregnant?

Why not make it law that all males are sterilized at birth and have to request to have a reversal ? Why not do that?

I read the other day that the only reason that abortions are allowed is because the foetuses are used for experiments and vaccines.

Where? Fakenews.com?

I read the other day that the only reason that abortions are allowed is because the foetuses are used for experiments and vaccines

You need to read less shit then because that's bollocks.

Turnitaroundagain

Nope, not true and you know it. Stop reading pro-life religious shit and do your own research ffs!

I read the other day that the only reason that abortions are allowed is because the foetuses are used for experiments and vaccines. If this is the case there should be transparency....some women might think twice.

I read the other day that anti-choice people actually want women to have babies so they have more newborns to do medical research on.

That's not true BTW. Nor is what you said, but it's about as likely.

@agnurse

All of your arguments support vasectomising baby boys at birth. Are you campaigning for this simple solution to "ensuring that women are never in a position where they need to seek an abortion"?

If he grows up and wants to have it reversed, he would need the signature of a woman who agrees to be impregnated by him (and only him).

Sure there will be reversal failures, there will be pain, there will be emotional scarring for men whose reversals are unsuccessful but it will be all worth it for the Almighty Theoretical Foetus surely?

This was written bc they want it to go to the Supreme court.

Abortion is needed in society but it is a traumatic experience for many. A logical. Common sense approach would be privately, through doctors which is better than clinics.

Some women do have multiple abortions. Without a care. Not my body but I think it's wrong.

Christianity is not the only religion that doesn't like abortion and it's a progressive religion compared to some others.

Those who slam Christianity are often basing their biases on Hollywood's portrayal. Hollywood is now owned by China which is communist and accepts no religion; indigenous to China or otherwise.

Don't think that this isn't something set up by either political party in an attempt to further divide America.

From straight vs gay, to men vs women, to white vs brown to poor vs middleclass, America's population has been set against each other bc it's much easier to manipulate a population that is divided. This is just one more spike in America's heart.

The irony is that these people are very quick to condemn Muslims as being backwards, but don't see what they're 2 sides of the same coins as fanatical muslims.

Exactly! A fanatic is a fanatic.

@Turnitaroundagain

You're incredibly stupid if you believed that for a second.

For a start, the cells that are used is some vaccines is laboratory grown, though they did originate from cells from two aborted fetuses in the 1960s.

@Turnitaroundagain

ODFOD