What on earth is going on in America??

[Nanny0gg]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48275795

How can a supposedly 'civilised' society pass such a retrograde law?

And other states following suit?

Conditioning is huge. You see it all the time here, too. We're conditioned to believe being in a man/woman couple is the be all to end all. I just finished reading 'American Isis' a biography Sylvia Plath. A well-educated, middle class white woman who was conditioned to accept rape and later abuse by her husband, even by her own mother. Her life marked by her inability to accept her husband's 'needs' to cheat and brutalise her, which he continued to do. One of her dear friends appearing on a recent documentary how she was forced to give up her son for adoption and was unable to trace him and crying over 60 years later. Anyone who says this is not acceptable is a wrong 'un.

I read the other day that the only reason that abortions are allowed is because the foetuses are used for experiments and vaccines. If this is the case there should be transparency....some women might think twice.

Yes, by aliens in a huge underwater lab.

But it's all a secret.

"Abortion is needed in society but it is a traumatic experience for many."

So is pregnancy. One of my bubbliest, most confident friends (who was happily married, had conceived without problems and had a healthy, exceptionally beautiful baby) developed PND after the birth of her first child.

It's not always temporary either. My mother recently crossed paths with a young man whom she used to look after when he was a little boy. His mother developed severe PND after he was born and her mental health never really recovered. She was sectioned multiple times when he was a child, poor woman. He told my mother than the times he spent at our house were amongst the few happy, secure memories of his childhood.

make it law that all males are sterilized at birth and have to request to have a reversal ? Why not do that?

Yes. That would be the best solution.

I will never support a ban on abortion/enforced pregnancy.

Once upon a time, although never vehemently anti abortion I had some sympathy for that position....I could sort of understand where they were coming from and felt uncomfortable with the idea of deliberately curtailing human life.

That was before I didn't know any better, didn't realise what was at stake.

Then I was pregnant myself and was severely traumatised by the birth and its aftermath, to the extent that I went into the maternity unit one person and came out of it another. And that was for a much wanted child; that was the only thing that made it (just about) bearable.

I won't even bother stating my current view on abortion because it is irrelevant. No way do I have the right to expect an unwilling woman to go through with a pregnancy, to risk going through what I went through. And if I don't, neither does anyone else. Anyone who advocates a ban on abortion is either very naive, very stupid or just plain hates women and enjoys making them suffer.

Let's just shame women into adoption, like they did in Ireland, and provided infertile couples with children the white world over! Or have those who escaped to England in so many droves their own records were 'PFI', pregnant from Ireland. That was a great solution. A good friend of mine's mother was. Her devout American Christian parents never told her the truth. She went a lot of her life feeling out of sorts, getting into trouble and pregnant herself at 17 until a vicious cousin at her adoptive mother's funeral (her adoptive father had died years before) told her, 'You're not even family. You're just an Irish bastard they bought for £1,000.' She's now happily living back in Ireland, the damage from living a lie a lot of her life is still with her. By the time she traced her birth mother, the woman was dead.

Anyone who advocates a ban on abortion is either very naive, very stupid or just plain hates women and enjoys making them suffer. This. Which is so depressing and worrying as how do you begin to negotiate or progress with people like this?

I very recently had a termination. It wasn't an easy decision. I just knew that I wouldn't be able to carry on with the pregnancy. I love all my children, but when pregnant with my daughter, I suffered mentally. I convinced myself everyday that I would lose her. I obsessed over still births. I looked up on the Internet every day and scared myself shitless about what could go wrong. The day she was born, it just stopped. I made myself suffer everyday of being pregnant, don't ask me why. There were some minor concerns throughout my pregnancy but I wasn't deemed high risk. It was extremely stupid of me to get pregnant again but I knew I couldn't go through it again. Not just for me, for my children too.
This is awful to read. I can't even comprehend how much women's are going to suffer mentally and physically by this. If my right was being taken away from me, I would be crushed for the children I have.
The poor women that will be forced, or worse, have to hide their abortions through fear and their own survival, scares me.

Those who slam Christianity are often basing their biases on Hollywood's portrayal.

Or, like me and some on this thread you grow up within the sort of Christianity that bans abortion full stop and know what you're talking about.

Those who slam Christianity are often basing their biases on Hollywood's portrayal. Hollywood is now owned by China which is communist and accepts no religion; indigenous to China or otherwise.

Oh sure, yeah. I look to Hollywood for all my information on religion and morality. Where would we be without the moral guidance of Tom Cruise and Meryl Streep?

Honestly this thread is becoming infested with numpties from the States who are spouting all kind of drivel that could be straight out of the mouths of Laura Ingraham or Tucker Carlson. As the President of the Greatest Country on Earth ™ would say, 'Sad!!!'

Waste of time engaging with them.

Funny you should mention
Ingraham:
"Why Don't Democrats Talk About Reproductive Rights Of Aborted Fetuses?" On FOX.

Why has this UK feed suddenly got loads of American nutters on here?! Think admin should maybe look into it.

boo trolls, bots and an extension of this www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/may/16/cfam-rightwing-white-house-anti-abortion-un

We should all be very aware (and wary of) the power and the money behind these debates and laws, as its infiltrating all countries. They were also against the law changing in the Republic of Ireland

Our goal is not only to make abortion illegal, but to make it unthinkable and unnecessary. We want to remove the circumstances that lead women to believe that abortion is a good option for them.

So, agnurse, how would that happen in the scenario I put forward: a woman who will inevitably miscarry; where, if the pregnancy is not terminated, she will get sepsis which will be near impossible to treat effectively without removing the foetus; but where the foetus' heart is still beating. An abortion is refused, and the woman in fact dies after three days in agony. How exactly would you remove the circumstances that led that woman to believe that abortion was a good option?

Our goal is not only to make abortion illegal, but to make it unthinkable and unnecessary. We want to remove the circumstances that lead women to believe that abortion is a good option for them.

No, you don't, because at the same time you are moving to outlaw some forms of birth control, cutting funding for education, healthcare and support for low income families, seeking to instate prosecution for women who misbehave in pregnancy and criminalise miscarriage for such behaviours or even none of them. You want to punish and criminalise women for sex, even sex that has been forced on them. Why not just be honest and own that? I'm an SNP supporter. Fuck Brexit! I think it's stupid, narrow-minded, backwards bollocks. I believe Scotland is better off becoming independent and negotiating entry into the EU. See, there, that's simple. I owned that instead of pretending and hiding under some other total balls. Why not just come out and say you don't believe women are capable of making an accurate decision about their lives and bodies and stop beating around the bush dressing it up as something else because you are not 'pro-life', you are about pro-birth, with none of the facilities in place to actually support women who are forced to do so? You want them to be forced to give birth to serve all these loving couples to adopt their babies, providing they adhere to your rules. Just own it.

Have the decency to own it because everyone can see through any other excuses.

Long ago a friend of mine became pregnant when she was a student. She is Catholic and didn't want an abortion, but her boyfriend categorically didn't want a baby and told her he would finish with her if she kept the baby. So she packed in university, gave birth to the baby and he was adopted, although her parents were happy to support and help her if she had kept him. She stayed with the boyfriend and they got married and had three children, one of whom died. Each pregnancy was hellish for her because it reminded her of the first one and, particularly, the trauma of handing her first child over to strangers. She went through the same trauma on his birthday each year.

When he grew up, the adopted child came looking for his mother and found her. He had been given to understand that this mother just hadn't been able to keep him. When he discovered that she could have done so perfectly well but gave him up in order to hang on to her boyfriend, that his father had forced her hand on this, and that he had siblings who had been brought up by both parents, it caused immense distress - particularly as his adoptive parents had not been nice people.

So, to those of you who think having a baby in order to have it adopted is an easy option, please try to exercise your brain cells and realise that it absolutely isn't.

Great post Garnier btw. Note since I last commented a number of posts advocating bans on women who are raped accessing legal abortions, accompanied by pious protestations of how those posting in support of this position would just go ahead with the pregnancy and that others should do the same. Presumably in that case they see no issue with the fact that a pregnant-as-a-result-of-rape 11-year-old in Ohio may be forced to do just that because of changes to Ohio abortion law that will be in line with those put forward in Alabama, Georgia and other states.

Ohio’s new “heartbeat bill,” which is slated to take effect in mid-July, means that the 11-year-old girl could be forced to carry the child to birth, regardless of the fact that she was raped.
buckeyestate.news/2019/05/03/police-ohio-man-raped-11-year-old-who-is-now-pregnant/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

How disgusting, Dottie. An 11-year-old cannot consent to sex. She was raped by a paedophile. But will likely be forced to give birth and even removed from her mother who had to live with roommates probably due to poverty and criminalised for it. That's sickening. And the same thing can, does and will continue to happen here because poor girls and children of poor don't count. Rotherham, anyone? Yay, hurray, Dickensian Britain! If you think it can't happen here, guess again.

Can someone who was raped take the morning after pill? Or anyone?

Just putting this on here as an FYI.

Less than 30% of children in the U.S. foster system are available for adoption.

www.fosterclub.com/blog/statistics-and-research

And the point is???

The point is there are not these hundreds of thousands of unwanted children in the foster system who we can't provide for.

I had HELLP syndrome when I was pregnant with DS1. Luckily I was full term. I had an emergency induction (it would have been a c section under a general had I deteriorated any further). I had to go through my second pregnancy knowing that if I got HELLP again they would have to deliver and that if it was before 23/24 weeks I would basically be having a termination. If I didn’t, I would die. I do not understand how certain people on this thread would have wanted me to die and for DS1 to lose his mummy.

Our goal is not only to make abortion illegal, but to make it unthinkable and unnecessary. We want to remove the circumstances that lead women to believe that abortion is a good option for them.

@agnurse - your comment shows how out of touch you are with what women need and want. I’m sure no women has an abortion without a huge amount of thought and mental torment but an abortion will always be better for the women than an unwanted baby.