What on earth is going on in America??

[Nanny0gg]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48275795

How can a supposedly 'civilised' society pass such a retrograde law?

And other states following suit?

Once you're pregnant that baby is here. The only question is who will raise it.

What about who will give birth to it? You forgot about that bit.

Agnurse - the scenarios you are using are not relevant. The point is that a woman has the right to decide whether to continue with a pregnancy.

I'm going to share the link dottie posted again. It's a positive thing we can do to improve the lot of women in the UK.

nowforni.uk/

So in that case, if a woman believes it to be her duty to have sex with her husband, how likely do you think it is that she'll want an abortion? Are you prepared to force one on her?

No, no one in this entire thread has said anything about forced abortion. I'm willing to bet that there are women who believe in their duty to their husband but who when faced with a life threatening pregnancy might want to terminate. But you want them to sacrifice their life for a pregnancy that they didn't want in the first place and then to give an added kick in the teeth you say it's their own fault for getting pregnant so they deserve it.

So we teach men not to rape. Is that not an option?

Not sure if you've noticed, but we do teach men not to rape. We also teach people not to steal. Both things still happen. Do you seriously believe that men rape because they think it's totally lawful and absolutely fine, agnurse?

Does that mean we punish the baby for the rape?

agnurse, you are avoiding answering my question about the case of the 17 week pregnant woman who is miscarrying, is refused an immediate termination because the foetus has a heartbeat, develops sepsis and spends over three days dying in agony. Just for the record, it's a real case.

In that case, should the rights of the foetus have trumped the rights of the mother?

www.theunchoice.com/articles/howcommoniscoercion.htm

The site is pro-life but the references are secular.

Acis

So we kill one to save the other? Do you think that's acceptable?

Acis she won't answer you, she's has repeatedly avoided answering any questions. She an ideologue who was trained by an organisation that thinks nurses should be able to put their ideologies above the needs of their patients. Of course, generally nurses are trained to do the complete opposite.

Agnurse, in that case the foetus could not survive anyway. It's a matter of terminating the pregnancy three days earlier than it terminated naturally with the mother's death.

Are you saying it would not have been acceptable to save the mother?

Well, how about a child, say the age of 12, pregnant.

Won’t you protect it from the risks of pregnancy and childbirth? She’s still a child? Why is an embryo more valuable than a child?

Why is an embryo more valuable than a woman?

It’s all about sex. Once a woman has sex she’s spoiled goods and the puritans are our to save what they see as innocent, the foetus.

agnurse how can you possibly know how you'd feel if you conceived as a result of rape?

What if a 12 year old girl becomes pregnant as a result of being raped by her father? You would expect that child to give birth, risk her own health and life, then what? Give the baby up for adoption? Raise it? Either would be equally traumatic for the 12 year old girl.

Having an abortion would erase being raped by her father, but it would certainly go a long way in preventing her further suffering and helping her to move forward with her own life.

Before you say it, no we wouldn't kill the newborn baby once it was born, because we have cut off points and we draw lines, and because ending a pregnancy is not the same is killing a baby or child.

‘The problem with IVF is twofold. It presupposes that one has a right to have children. They do not. It also denies the child the right to be conceived as a visible sign of love as demonstrated by the marital union of the spouses.’

Bloody hell. I’ve never seen anyone post something as ridiculous about IVF before. I was lucky to conceive naturally. My friends that went through IVF went through heartbreak, huge financial and emotional cost, constant worry etc. Your comments are highly disparaging and offensive.

There is no point engaging with the poster above about abortion if she’s so batshit about IVF.

‘The problem with IVF is twofold. It presupposes that one has a right to have children. They do not. It also denies the child the right to be conceived as a visible sign of love as demonstrated by the marital union of the spouses.’

Rape also denies the child that 'right'. But you're ok with that.

I struggle to understand how you make out that a child conceived through IVF is not a visible sign of their parents' love. Surely it's a much clearer sign of that love than the child who is the product of an accidental pregnancy, let alone one who is the product of their mother being raped?

The only thing I can conclude from your post agnurse is that what you actually believe in, is taking away women's reproductive freedom and choices.

The main problem with that is that it's women and children who suffer as a result. Women and children who are already here, not the unborn.

It's already been tried and tested in history, that's why we now have the option contraception and abortion.

@Agnurse

I hope you realise that your deeply offensive and utterly batshit comments do far more harm to your cause than good.

In my experience, extreme anti-choicers have no self awareness and no concept of how ridiculous they look to the wider public. Certainly in Ireland last year, their behaviour turned a lot of undecided voters towards repeal.

I hope you realise that your deeply offensive and utterly batshit comments do far more harm to your cause than good.

Yes, this is why I hope she keeps posting. She's doing a grand job of making the pro-choice argument.

It also denies the child the right to be conceived as a visible sign of love as demonstrated by the marital union of the spouses.

Why is is important that children be coceived through loving sexual relations, when you think women who have been raped by a male relative should have the trauma they personally experienced compounded by being forced to continue the pregnancy?

Yes, this is why I hope she keeps posting. She's doing a grand job of making the pro-choice argument.

The last time I saw arguments this incriminating, it was when a poster said an abusive man was "a victim of abortion", after he murdered his ex-girlfriend's young daughter to punish her mother, his ex, for terminating.

So we kill one to save the other? Do you think that's acceptable?

Yes.

Having an abortion after rape is not punishing the child.
It's about not punishing the victims. Both the woman and the child who was the product of rape.
How to tell a child they were born from their mother and grandfather? Are they not punished by being born?

Presume pp have already said this but THIS is why Trump was elected. As shitty and disgusting as he is, packing the Supreme Court with right wing republicans was all it was ever about. To take a shot at Roe v Wade when this inevitably gets to the Supreme Court. And Trump is merely the instrument by which this is achieved. It will be interesting to see if the hard right drop him now he has given them what they wanted.

bellinisurge

Unfortunately you're very right.
And it was predictable too.

This is why feminism is not dead.

If Roe was overturned, surely there would be an enormous backlash against the Republicans? The majority of Americans are pro-choice, even many moderate conservatives, and stripping away rights that have been in place for decades will cause uproar. This could be the hill the Republicans die on.