What on earth is going on in America??

[Nanny0gg]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48275795

How can a supposedly 'civilised' society pass such a retrograde law?

And other states following suit?

There are very few Republican senators who are openly pro-choice: Collins, maybe?
There is a groundswell of anti-choice feeling across the US and elected representatives are scared to challenge it.
It is naive to think that there is a clear pro-choice wave that will stop this.

Not sure many fundamentalists care about Republican gains or losses, as long as the Supreme Court does their bidding. They're there for life.

And the way it's going they can rig elections or election circles to stay in power despite not having a voter majority. Amazing.

Blessed Be the Fruit.

Exactly @Lweji , Bernie could be the next President and there is fuck all he can do about the makeup up of the Supreme Court unless a couple of them die on his watch.
#hangonRuthBaderGinsberg

No Lweji The child born of the 12 year old raped by her father is likely to be punished further as that father now has another victim. :( But yay for life and all that.

On the issue of sacrificing the mother to save the foetus, and then everyone is happy because a lovely baby lives so it's all ok.

This is not a scenario without fallout. My grandmother bled to death giving birth to my father. He lived to be an old man and spent nearly ninety years carrying the guilt of having killed his mother. It's a terrible emotional burden to carry, and was not helped by the fact that his own father and siblings resented him for it. This happened in an era when childbirth was much riskier but I can only imagine how much worse his emotional burden would have been had he lived his life knowing that his mother could have saved her own life but the law compelled her to die for him.

It's awful. Unfortunately the fundamentalist Christians have a strangle hold on US politics, it's a bit like the public school does on ours. Personally I'm anti abortion for myself but accept that others don't feel the same way and that the law gives them the right to have one.

What's worrying me most though is what's next.? I suspect they will try to stop women working in any job unless part time and poorly paid if they have children.

I think there are studies that show that anti abortion voters tend to be single issue voters but pro choice voters tend not to be but that changes when abortion rights are under immediate attack. Then pro choice voters become single issue voters too.

That rings true with me as abortion rights were not a huge deciding factor for me in Ireland until there was actually a possibility that they might be considered. Then it became a deciding factor in my vote and I no longer even voted for someone I had actually campaigned for in the past.

It's a transparent push to get women back where we belong. Barefoot and pregnant, chained to the kitchen sink

Agnurse was inciting people on another thread, they are just a troll tbh.

The bloody ridiculous thing is that there's no more enthusiastic or efficient abortionist than God/ nature (delete in accordance with your beliefs).

Yes, simplysteve she's all over gransnet enraging everyone too

@SimplySteveRedux

I don’t know if you know this but there are ACTUAL people who ACTUALLY support pro-life movements, who ACTUALLY support this bill 99%. Calling them “mental” as another poster did won’t eliminate the fact that people ACTUALLY believe that. They aren’t trolls but real life people who fully believe they are right, kind of like how you do.

Necesitodormirahora, I asked up thread where you stood on miscarriage, given your belief that life starts at conception. Should every miscarriage lead to an inquest, and should women and indeed doctors deemed not to have done enough to avoid miscarriage be criminalised?

necesitodormirahora you're back, great. Could you answer the question I posed to you last evening?

Even if you believe that life begins at conception, how can you justify a foetus being given rights that massively exceed those of humans who have been born? As I keep saying, no 'born' person has the right to legally compel another to give up their bodily autonomy in order to sustain or save a life. Why are foetuses different to people who need blood transfusions, or kidney transplants? In fact, to compare what you may consider like with like: why are foetuses different to newborn babies who require blood transfusions or organ transplants? Why does that right end the moment someone is born?

@Acis
Sorry, I missed that.
No.

I understand that some people who support this Bill believe they are right, but I really struggle to understand how they can, in the absence of cognitive difficulties, believe that it is right to force a child who has been raped by her father to carry and give birth to the product of that rape; or that it is right to refuse a woman termination when her baby cannot survive anyway and that refusal puts the mother's life massively at risk. Can you explain that, Necesito?

Thanks for responding to my earlier question, necesito. But, if you believe that all life begins at conception and therefore should not be terminated before birth, surely that approach to miscarriages is the logical consequence?

How dare we slate US when we have the same in NI ?

@SaskiaRembrandt
If you want to create an echo chamber for yourself, great. However, don’t be surprised when the party you thought was least popular are voted in or when a law passes.

Most of your question seems rather like drivel to me and I struggle to understand. I said this upthread but the main difference between pro-lifers and pro-choicers is the belief that a foetus is a life just like you and I. Please try and see it from mine and others view. Due to me believing that I hope you can understand that that means killing a foetus through termination is therefore deemed as “murder”. Body autonomy and a right to body autonomy based on this fails way below the right to life/ the right to not be murdered. Even that we can agree. I k ow you probably don’t believe a foetus is a life but can you understand the reasonings if u did.

Because we can perfectly consistently slate both of them, stopfuckingshouting?

necesito

I understand that perfectly well. One thing I don't understand is how someone can say that they people that life comes above all else therefore are anti abortion, then on the other hand support the death penalty.

necesitodormirahora how rude! My question is not drivel just because you struggle to understand it. I am not asking about your opinion, you have already expressed that, and I understand you believe that a foetus is equivalent to a person who has already been born. Bearing that in mind, I am asking why you think a foetus should have rights which don't apply to any other person.

it is right to force a child who has been raped by her father to carry and give birth to the product of that rape; or that it is right to refuse a woman termination when her baby cannot survive anyway and that refusal puts the mother's life massively at risk. Can you explain that, Necesito?

@Acis

I’m not the most anti-abortion person out there so I don’t agree with everything. Like I said before, it’s because of the belief that a foetus is a life.