What on earth is going on in America??

[Nanny0gg]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48275795

How can a supposedly 'civilised' society pass such a retrograde law?

And other states following suit?

The idea that you could send a woman to prison because she chooses to terminate a pregnancy is just barbaric.

And the inevitable consequence is also that women who have the misfortune to have a miscarriage or stillborn baby will also go to prison. But hey, it's worth it if it teaches women to know their place, right?

It is incumbent on women to recognize that sex can lead to babies, no matter how careful you are. It's also incumbent on them to recognize that once you're pregnant, you already have a baby.

I'd also like to ask: where are men in this?

Actually there ARE people who want to see post-birth abortion legalized, potentially up to age 2.

[citation needed]

Preferably a citation that’s not from an extremely biased source, @agnurse.

Surely doctors could just basically...lie, and say the mother's life is at serious risk... ?

Performing an abortion will carry up to 99 years in jail for the doctor in Alabama. I doubt many doctors will be willing to lie.

Abortions will be allowed if the women's life is in danger, but I can imagine doctors will be pretty wary of agreeing to perform a termination unless it is very clear the woman will die without it, in case a court later disagrees.

Oh this reminds me. I saw a American person comment on Facebook the other day swearing blind that in Belgium entire families gather round and hold down a kicking and screaming grandparent so that a doctor can administer a lethal injection, because that's what families do there. They were linking it to abortion.

The comment about killing two year olds just made me think of that...

post-birth abortion

is one way to describe the death penalty.

I guess even God makes mistakes.

I suspect agnurse's nursing credentials have about much in common with real nursing as my cat's PhD does to Brian Cox's.

Dottierichardson
Thanks for the link. Just signed it.

Oh this reminds me. I saw a American person comment on Facebook the other day swearing blind that in Belgium entire families gather round and hold down a kicking and screaming grandparent so that a doctor can administer a lethal injection, because that's what families do there.

Not just random US citizens... Remember Fox News (if only the consumer protection act applied to names ....) spouted so much bollocks about life in the UK they got themselves an OFCOM rebuke

www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/21/ofcom-criticises-fox-news-for-calling-birmingham-no-go-zone-for-non-muslims

Did you know there are 36 couples waiting to adopt every 1 baby placed for adoption?

Love to know where you are getting your figures from, maybe the same anti-choice sources as the people who harass and intimidate women outside abortion clinics? They also specialise in spreadin false, and deliberately frightening information about the impact of abortion, none of which is backed up by legitimate sources of information.

“There are more than twice as many children waiting for families than there are adopters, new figures show.

The statistics reveal there are 1,135 children waiting to be adopted but just 407 families approved to adopt.

The shortfall in the number of adoptive parents is revealed at the start of National Adoption Week, which aims to inspire more people to adopt.

The new research, by Adoption Match and based on data from The Adoption Register for England, also reveals that of the children awaiting adoption:

• Almost a third (29%) are Black and Minority Ethnic children
• 57% are boys
• 55% are in sibling groups of two or more

Dr Sue Armstrong Brown, Adoption UK’s chief executive, said: “Children who are older, part of a sibling group, or have special needs are always harder to match – so there is an urgent need for families who can meet their needs.” “

www.adoptionuk.org/news/children-awaiting-adoption-outnumber-adopters-by-more-than-2-to-1

I have just sent that letter to my MP too, Dottie. He may be a Conservative, but he seems like a decent one. And is a doctor too, so should understand the consequences of this kind of retrogressive policy.

Thanks Spinnaret.

Fuck, just seen he voted against the Bill to allow abortion in NI. Wanker. I take it back about him seeming decent. Obviously only when it suits him.

The thing is, an unborn child is not the mother's body. You could argue, "Well, it's dependent on her". Yes, but so is a newborn. So is a young child. Many people are dependent on their caregivers. Does that mean that their caregivers have the right to destroy them because it isn't convenient?

I find it unbelievable that an actual, qualified nurse would make such a ridiculous statement. A foetus cannot survive outside of the womb of the female carrying it, until the point of viability (usually 24 weeks' gestation). A newborn baby or a young child can be cared for by any human being.

Perhaps your nursing school wasn't quite up to scratch as your knowledge of biology seems rather shaky.

Fuck, just seen he voted against the Bill to allow abortion in NI. Wanker. I take it back about him seeming decent. Obviously only when it suits him

What part of "Tory" did you misunderstand ?

Spinnaret I suppose you could add a sentence reminding him he's elected to represent constituents not his own personal agenda and you expect that he will take the views of his constituents on board? Probably won't make a difference but always worth challenging these people, also it may be he voted that way in the past because of a political deal of some sort and might not in future if it looked as if it might benefit him in terms of local votes?

The reason why there is division between pro-lifers and pro-choicers is arguably because the question as to when life begins. For me, life beings at conception. Based on that I hope you can see why I and others are pro-life. That’s literally the main difference and any disagreements stem from there onwards.

Honestly. This is akin to taking weapons away from frontline soldiers in a war because, you know, killing is WRONG...

Spinnaret I suppose you could add a sentence reminding him he's elected to represent constituents not his own personal agenda and you expect that he will take the views of his constituents on board?

that died June 24th 2016 when MPs in remain constituencies suddenly discovered they had to ignore their constituents because of "the will of the people ©".

necesitodormirahora

Even if you believe that life begins at conception, how can you justify a foetus being given rights that massively exceed those of humans who have been born? As I keep saying, no 'born' person has the right to legally compel another to give up their bodily autonomy in order to sustain or save a life. Why are foetuses different to people who need blood transfusions, or kidney transplants? In fact, to compare what you may consider like with like: why are foetuses different to newborn babies who require blood transfusions or organ transplants? Why does that right end the moment someone is born?

It is incumbent on women to recognize that sex can lead to babies, no matter how careful you are.

What about rape victims? Just... sucks to be them?

It's also incumbent on them to recognize that once you're pregnant, you already have a baby.

Well if that were the case I’d have a 16 month old child right now. But I don’t, because my DH and I decided together when I became pregnant that we weren’t emotionally or financially ready; we weren’t earning enough, my mental and physical health were pretty fragile at the time and we were living in a tiny flat that is too small for us never mind a child, but we couldn’t afford to leave.

Fast forward two years... I’m 17 weeks pregnant, DH and I couldn’t be more excited, we’re both earning more, we’re moving to a bigger home with a lot more space, I’m physically and mentally stable (sucky thyroid aside) and we can’t wait to welcome our little Bean.

Every child should be wanted, anticipated, prepared for. Every Mother should choose to be a Mother. Anything else is just cruel, if not downright barbaric.

It is incumbent on women to recognize that sex can lead to babies, no matter how careful you are.

Funny how people that trot this out are also massively against proper, informative and appropriate sex education as well. (In fact not just sex education but education in general ....)

DGRossetti

It also hints at the idea of pregnancy as a punishment for women who do have sex, which really jars with their other idea that it's some kind of sacred blessing.

"Women have no idea how much men hate them". Germaine Greer

One day, we may get permission to own our own bodies. If we're very good and don't make a fuss.