Is it unreasonable for 18 to be out clubbing until 3 or 4 am the day before A level revision at school and her brothers 1st GCSE?

[Theworldcouldbemymollusc]

I’m more cranky than normal due to a tooth abscess and no sleep so need some views. Dd’s Plan is to go clubbing tonight until 3ish and get a random lift home. She always wakes us up coming home. Sometimes being too pissed to find her key and ringing the doorbell. I really need to sleep tonight as have work all week. Now she’s 18 she feels and acts like she can do whatever she likes and it’s beginning to grate. Fair enough if she wants to mess her A levels up that is her choice but I feel it’s unfair on her DB. Any thoughts or suggestions welcome as I don’t feel I’m best equipped to deal with it well today.

Well we inherently disagree Dungeon. I dont think your average 18 year old is mature enough to understand the enormity of fucking up exams is to life prospects.

I disagree with you there. I think that most 18 year old are mature to understand that. I certainly was as are my children and their friends.

We obviously mixed in very different circles Dungeon.

And I’m with Milly, the world of work and life in general is full of rules and boundaries, washing your hands of all responsibility simply because they reach an arbitrary age of majority is nuts. And in the OPs case, seemingly not doing much good.

I agree it's facile trying to impose rules when they are 18. My point was that they should have been brought up with rules and boundaries in place from when they're born. That way, you don't have this stress when they're 18, and have to try and point out and enforce the bleeding obvious to them.

And I’m with Milly, the world of work and life in general is full of rules and boundaries, washing your hands of all responsibility simply because they reach an arbitrary age of majority is nuts. And in the OPs case, seemingly not doing much good The aim should be to work at becoming an adult before they reach 18, not waiting till they get to 18 before allowing them to make decisions and take responsibility for themselves.

One thing I found enormously helpful as a teen was my father just casually mentioning that he had never felt his 18th birthday was such a big deal because his mother had gradually treated him as more and more of an adult during his teens so when he got to 18 he felt he was an adult. I felt telling me this was a kind of signal that this was how he wanted me to think too and a kind of yardstick that I could hold my parents to, too, as long as I lived up to my side of the bargain.

The difference, as I felt it, was that I transitioned from a world of rules to a world of responsibilities and obligations. There are no rules that say I can't go out and go on the piss on a weekday. But I will probably give a crap lecture the next day if I do. And incidentally, that obligation to meet responsibilities might also prevent you from doing something perfectly innocent and reasonable, like having a new haircut if you're in a play (like my dd).

The message I was not given- and have not been giving my own children- is that your plan has to look a certain way (A-levels, university). But you have to have a plan, even if that is only working at Costa's (dd until she got into drama school) or getting an apprenticeship as a bricklayer (ds is looking at this).

And I’m with Milly, the world of work and life in general is full of rules and boundaries, washing your hands of all responsibility simply because they reach an arbitrary age of majority is nuts. And in the OPs case, seemingly not doing much good.

I didn't "wash my hands". As I said I provide guidance and advice now that they are young adults. I had rules when they were actual children. If you think it is "nuts" to treat someone like an adult simply because they have reached the age of majority, I would suggest you think about why 18 has been chosen as the age of majority. The number hasn't been picked out of a hat believe it or not. It is the age where the majority of people are mature and responsible enough to have the legal responsibilities and rights of adults. You and your children may have been immature at that age but it is a bit rich to suggest those who do have mature children of being bad parents.

I think we are talking about those children who aren’t mature enough to make those decisions - that’s the point! If you are happy to party til 3am during your public exams, you are not mature enough to make decisions entirely on your own.

I don't think the partying itself that is the problem - it's the noisy entrance that wakes up half the house the night before her brother's first GCSE and it's the not having worked hard enough for her A levels.
A social life whilst studying hard for exams is fine - healthy even, sure a Wednesday night is not ideal but if you had studied hard it wouldn't make much of a difference (our kids have their prom and leavers school trip the week before their exams start!) but you can't have a social life, not study very hard and succeed, it doesn't work that way, unless you are exceptional. The thing is maybe the OPs dd does not want to work hard to succeed academically - it's not for everyone but sometimes it's the easy option to follow the masses and do A levels while you figure out what you really want to do.

I think we are talking about those children who aren’t mature enough to make those decisions - that’s the point! If you are happy to party til 3am during your public exams, you are not mature enough to make decisions entirely on your own.

They aren't children though. They are adults and are not necessarily going to change when they are older. There are probably 40 year olds who would party til 3 a.m. during exam season. It's not as if she has an exam the next day. In fact, I don't think most people even start A levels until next week. Obviously parents should still guide young adult children and advise them but you can't start imposing rules that you would do for a child even if they are not behaving in a way you would consider to be mature. I don't think it is a good idea for OP's child to be getting drunk during the exam season as it will have an impact on her revision the next day but it's not that much of a disaster. The main problem is that she could wake up her DB which is very unfair and I think OP should certainly get that across to her.

On MN some posters think that as soon as a child's age changes from 17 and 364 days to 18 they magically turn into mature adults.

In the real world, however, this isn't the case. Yes, they are legally adults, but in many cases they simply aren't emotionally mature enough or responsible enough to make adult or sensible decisions.

Sometimes a parent has to step in and provide boundaries or offer guidelines and support, and there is nothing wrong with that.

It is very weird that some are referring to 18 year olds as children - it seems we change our view depending on the situation - when an 18 year old commits a crime you won't get many defending them and saying they really are just children - oh no - lock 'em up and throw away the key...

I have a DD currently sitting A levels and one in her 2nd year at uni. We live rurally so it costs over £50 to get a taxi back from the nearest club and my DDs won't pay that much, so we haven't really had these issues.

It is a real nightmare knowing how far and when to let go and in my family there have been errors of judgement on both sides. I favour the compromise option: you start poles apart and gradually work towards a solution that is closer to the other person's point of view. In the OP's case, the brother's GCSE is more important IMHO than the revision class. So if the girl goes out, she comes home silently or has to stay elsewhere. If it was my DDs, I would have said they could go as long as they were back by midnight as it's a school night. As a sweetener, I would offer to be the taxi (saving £50), so they could go out, drink, have fun, but be back at a reasonable-ish hour and have me there to ensure they kept quiet or slept downstairs. She gets her night out, albeit on your terms. You have the peace of mind that she's back safely and are in control of the noise issue.

I'm not going to criticise the OP's parenting style because we don't know the full picture. However, it might be a good life lesson for her DD to pay a nominal amount e.g. £50/£100 each month towards her keep once she finishes school. When her phone contract comes up for renewal, look into transferring it into her name and she can pay it. Even if the OP doesn't spend the money but locks it away to give her DD later on, it shows the girl that this is how adults behave, but in a non-confrontational way.

On MN some posters think that as soon as a child's age changes from 17 and 364 days to 18 they magically turn into mature adults.

That is a ridiculous comment. Noone thinks that they magically mature on their 18th birthday. Some of us think that they gradually mature during their childhood and by their 18th birthday they are mature enough to be treated as responsible adults. The law agrees. Support and advice is usually still necessary at this age but decisions on how much studying they do etc are theirs.

No it isn't a ridiculous comment Dungeon
I know a lot of teenagers in that age group. Some are mature and sensible, and some most definitely are not. I also know some very immature and irresponsible young adults in their 20s.

You must only know mature and sensible 18 year olds.

I still need support and advice at times - it's good to feel you can explore your options with others, not at all a sign of lack of maturity quite the opposite! My kids trust my opinion, they also know that I encourage them to seek advice from all who might have a different experience to them and use this and the skills and knowledge they have acquired to make decisions for themselves...I'd hate to think they won't come to me to chat through whatever decisions they need to make as they get older - but I won't be laying down the law, setting the rules or the boundaries - we moved on from that style of parenting when they hit their teens and so far so good - they have very much grown into it. There is more than one way to support a young adult develop - making all the decisions on their behalf is one way but it isn't the written in stone "right" way.

I didn't even read the whole thread

"We currently pay for her phone". Stop paying for it. She earns enough to go out clubbing, she earns enough to pay for it herself.

"She gets a random lift home". This is beyond worrying. Especially when she's often unable to even get through the front door.

She needs to be taught responsibility, start with paying rent / board. Doesn't have to be a lot but otherwise she won't learn and actual real life rent is a LOT more expensive than board.

She also needs to learn some respect. For others she lives with and herself.

No it isn't a ridiculous comment Dungeon hmm
I know a lot of teenagers in that age group. Some are mature and sensible, and some most definitely are not. I also know some very immature and irresponsible young adults in their 20s.

I said that your comment that some posters think that children magically mature into adults on their 18th birthday was ridiculous. Not sure why you think knowing a lot of teenagers gives you any insight into what MN posters think.

JuJuMu Good post! I think my style of parenting is similar to yours.

No kudos for working during her A levels oh no - make her pay board/rent - she’s got life too easy. If she wasn’t working you lot would be screaming tell her to get a job! That’s what wrong with asking for advice on AIBU - it’s rarely measured

It's one thing for the daughter to mess up her masterclass revision the day after clubbing, but quite another altogether if she disrupts the household and spoils her brother's first GCSE. The first exam is always rather nerve-wracking, and she has a responsibility towards him and her mother.

Can she go to a friend's straight from school on the clubbing day and stay until brother is at his exam the next day? That might avoid a bad atmosphere in the house.

Clearly the OP's daughter hasn't matured gently through her teenage years resulting in her being sensible and mature as she turns 18. Her behaviour demonstrates how immature and selfish she still is. So presumably the signs she wasn't maturing as, one would wish, have been evident for the last few years?

Oh come on - best will in the world they all mature at different rates - you work with what you have, you keep your expectations high, you mirror good behaviour, you teach them to have consideration for others not because they get punished but because it's the right thing to do BUT they fuck up - that doesn't mean you've failed as a parent - it doesn't mean they are a crappy teen who'll never make anything of their lives ...it's just the way it goes ups and downs, you keep working on it...as calmly as you can because at least one person has to be calm and in control and it usually isn't the teen!