To want to take on, possibly adopt, my nephew.

[Krishna39]

Without giving away too much information, I really need some advice and opinions.
My sister is quite a volatile person, to the extent that one of her children despises her and has moved out of the family home. However, he's gone from one toxic environment to another whilst living with his father.
A friend of my sister has come to me, really concerned about her wellbeing as well as my nephew's wellbeing too.
My husband and I are able to provide him with a loving home, a stable routine and environment. We don't have children ourselves but I have a fantastic relationship with my nephew and truly believe that he would benefit from coming to live with us.
I understand that this is a life-changing event and it would mean that we would have to consider the school run, the holidays, work, changes to routine, emotional health and funding etc. but it is something I think he really needs. I want to go into this with as much information and ideas as possible- would I get some support with regards to funding? My husband and I both work full-time and can provide a comfortable life for us all, but if we do take him on we could possibly need help with funding a bus pass for school etc.

Could anyone please offer some advice? TIA

You might get better advice on the adoption boards. There are a lot of armchair experts on Aibu who are desperate to put the boot in.

I don’t think anything has been said here that isn’t true.

I’m a social worker, as is at least one other poster here. There’s no point in trying to sugar coat it - simply, the answer will be that without parental consent or care proceedings, any plan to have a child live with you will be unsuccessful.

It’s not about “putting the boot in”, more being realistic.

Op it is better for a child to be brought up by birth parents who are crap parents, than brought up by excellent non biological parents.
Barring abuse or severe neglect, the attachment issue and brain trauma outweigh the excellent parenting.

You should definitely get social services involved if there is concern about his welfare but it’s a very long way from them getting involved to them taking the child away from his parents. It’s done only as a last resort when all other options have been exhausted.

Unless your sister agrees to him coming to live with you it’s not likely to happen any time soon, sorry.

And just to avoid confusion, the link given by sleepy earlier only pertains to short-term private fostering, which doesn't go on for longer than 28 days -- not for having a child come to live with you permanently.

@MyDcAreMarvel are you for real? Where does being “crap parents” stop, a lot of damage can be done before you reach the stages of severe abuse and neglect. My dm’s mother is responsible for a hell of a lot of issues that marked my dm’s life, she was definitely a crap parent. Not the same situation, but my dd’s Bio dad isn’t overtly abusive — just a shitty, insidious person and is well out of her life. I don’t agree that even crap parents are always better (especially than “excellent” non bio parents)

If you posted on the adoption boards you’d be told the same thing. Unless his mum/dad agree, or SS remove him from both his parents’ care, he won’t be coming to live with you.

Even if you involve SS and they agree intervention is needed their first steps will be to work with the parents to improve, they won't just take the child away from his parents and give him to you. I think you have a romanticised view of "rescuing" your nephew from what you perceive to be an unstable home life without giving too much thought to what the reality of this might be.

I am a social worker in an area child protection team and in my local authority we deal with cases from referral and where needed in proceedings to their conclusion and if they are not subsequently placed in a kinship (family) placement then we tend to keep the case until following the adoption order. To echo previous posters, without either agreement from those with PR or a court order if this is not the case, then your suggestion simply is not feasible. As already posted, threshold for removal is high and parent's will have to have been given an oppurtunity to make necessary changes with appropriate support in all but a few cases where it is felt the risk cannot be managed. Due to your nephews age and unless there has been a significant and life threatening event, this is unlikely. If you have concerns you should report them to social care for assessment. If it is decided the child is at risk and parent's then show no capacity to address this it maybe that it meets the threshold for proceedings at some point. This is very much a last resort and it is expected that children remain with their parents unless everything else has been tried. I know that this seems illogical to lots of people but we know that the outcomes for children removed from their parents are very poor so on balance remaining with them has to be worse. Also what is considered 'good enough' parenting by the courts (and by CP professionals) is very different to the general public's idea. Unfortunately there are tens of thousands of children out there who will never receive the level of care a lot of people think of as the basic minimum and a lot of work we do is managing the damage to the best of our ability and hoping to break the cycle.
Finally, if your nephew was placed with you, you would need to be assessed. As a an approved kinship carer you would recieve a fostering allowance whilst in proceedings and then maybe some level of support as a Special Guardian for an agreed period before review. It is expected that as you have applied to care for a child in the long-term that you will meet their financial needs as you would your own children. There is some level of flexibility however the local authority have extremely limited funds and certainly do not provide extensions/loft conversions as a matter of course. I have known this be agreed on a couple of occasions but they were unique on that foster carers applied to adopt very hard to place sibling groups and would be giving up their wage to do so. Even then it took the judge demanding the director of Children's services to attend court before senior managers were willing to agree to this.

Another social worker just confirming what has already been said. You aren't able to take over the care of another person's dc without their consent, unless the care of the dc is so poor that a court order would be granted. That is a very high threshold to meet and it doesn't sound as though you are near there yet. It is a big leap from first social care contact to looking for alternative homes for dc, most social care work doesn't meet this threshold.
You might be better to support your nephew and his parents.
( also dc are really, really expensive)

To the socialworkers can I just ask you why do the benefits of being with parent who many of us would deem “unfit” outweigh being placed in foster care?

I know care leavers are some of the most vulnerable children/young adults out there, but is being parented with lowish levels of neglect, emotional harm any better?

No judgement, just wondering if there were any bits of data that support the thinking. I’m really interested in this.

The Op has not provided any information at all to suggest that the child is volatile or not being cared for or in any harm. She is of the opinion that he lives in a toxic environment but no detail has been provided to indicate if that it true.

@myDCaremarvel

That’s complete and utter rubbish.

This is bonkers

You can’t unilaterally decide a child should come to live with you, ring SS and tell hem that, get a load of state funding and live happy ever after.

What planet are you on?

If you are worried about him then alert SS who can do a proper assessment and work with the parents to look at how they can better provide for him.

I work with children and know how challenging it is to bring up a child- it's not a decision I've taken lightly.

I was interested in the OP's comment above. Does working with children really mean you understand fully what it takes to raise a child?

To be honest OP, I think you've jumped the gun a bit. Surely the first thing to do is to speak with your DSis and BiL. Also, what if your nephew doesn't want to live with you? Whatever your DSis's faults may be, she is still his mother. Maybe SS can help by giving her some support? How about offering your DSis support yourself? I'm pretty sure they won't be whisking your DN away without at least trying.

I think your idea of dragging the parents to court to forcibly take their child away from them is really awful.

Marvel is right, though. Studies show poor outcomes for looked after children in mental and physical health and educational attainment. Adoptive families do wonderful therapeutic parenting but they are often working with children who have been neglected or abused, and of course many LAC are not adopted/adoptable but are in and out of care, moved between multiple foster placements etc, which can have a terrible impact on their ability to form secure relationships.

It is considered better for the child for the birth family to be supported to keep the child living with them, if at all possible.

I don't understand. The child isn't even known to SS and you're planning on adopting/fostering them. Do you know how long it takes for that stuff to happen?
You can barely afford a bus pass for a theoretical child but think you should be first in line for them?

Surely the first thing to do is to speak with your DSis and BiL

I'd wager that their take on it if they even exist will be entirely different to the OP's view of the situation.

My 10yo will say he doesn't want to live with me, that I'm making him miserable, that I'm unkind/mean/hate him. These accusations always take place after he's lost access to his ipad and/or the TV for misbehaving.

This isn't really "a thing" OP.. You can't just opt to foster someone. If his parents say no and social services feel it's not necessary then it's a no. I'm sure you are thinking of his best interests but you come across a bit naive and very much ahead of yourself in this.

What do his parents think?

Just echo HelveticaSurprise. We are no longer placing relinquished babies but very traumatised children. Even if a child settles well initially somewhere down the line, often at puberty, they display distressed behaviours that even very experienced and committed carers struggle to manage. Whilst as adults we understand that removal from their parents is in 'their best interests', many crave the return to their birth family even when they understand on one level the reasons why they cannot be with them. It is heartbreaking to witness the absoulutley understandable desire that surely 'they are enough' for these adults to make the changes needed and the contrasting lack of capacity from their parents. Older children will have accepted things as of normality (and by older I mean a four year old heading to the shop to buy breakfast, caring for younger siblings when parents are not able for whatever reason) and then struggle with an alternative carer then trying to look after them when they have had to be so independent. I have had tiny babies terrified of the males in a carers household because of the domestic violence they have been subjected to. I am also currently undertaking a pre-birth assessment of a young mother who was herself removed fron her parents at birth. Even though she was never in their care she has significant attachment/learning difficulties and is incredibly vulnerable. Her adoptive parents did everything 'right' however she has recently reached adulthood and constantly places herself at significant risk of harm. She has no capacity to care for her baby ( this is a psychological assessment not my opinion) however her problems have been assessed as due to life trauma rather than anything organic. We really do not know much about the brain however early life trauma, even in utero, is irreversible.

I adopted my nephew as he was in care due to being abused by his parents, not because he didn’t fancy living with them anymore.

You can’t just go around stealing children.

God willstarttomorrow as an adoptive parent of two young children (both removed at birth), that is very depressing reading.

I think maybe the best you can do is offer to have your nephew for the odd weekend or during the school holidays. Make sure he knows that you are there for him if he needs a safe place to go or someone to support him if things are difficult in the future. You can't just decide to adopt him though. That will never get near a court.

Hinge the toilet - I went through primary and secondary school with a brother and sister who were adopted when they were very young. Older sibling would have Been a toddler, younger was a baby.

They had an amazing childhood and family (joined by a little brother when they were in their teens) and they grew up as well adjusted productive adults. Now have families of their own and are very close with their (adoptive, but very real) parents.

They knew from day one they were adopted, and I was always very jealous about how special that made them - they were chosen, while my parents played Russian roulette and got landed with me😂😂.

hiding I think what I would say is that some dc have more natural resilience than others and it isn't known why yet.
We are also constantly discovering how plastic our brains are and how long they remain so.
So some dc are highly damaged by seemingly minimal abuse/neglect and others survive significant levels with minimal impact.