To not understand this whole non gender thing?

[Bobcut]

What is going on? In the nicest way possible

Why are so many toilets becoming mixed gender. Many women would feel uncomfortable and vulnerable sitting on a toilet with a man outside who could peep over. It probably wouldn’t happen but in a pub for example when people are drunk it still could and for someone who has been through abuse it can be intimidating.

I just don’t understand why the tiny minority of trans etc cannot use disabled IF there is extra toilet for them, for example instead of changing toilets to mixed they should just build them another? Even clothing John Lewis gender neutral- why? If your dd wants to wear a train top just buy it? Why do we need to remove labels. I sometimes buy my dd paw patrol ‘boy’ nighties I don’t need to cry if I had to go down to the boy aisle for it.

I feel like the world is going mad

Apparently in schools there are a lot of kids now saying they have no gender- surely this is a phase if 20 years ago this wasn’t happening???

@ManeChanged - pretty sure your daughter's school is breaking the law there - legally they must provide toilets segregated by sex, not gender.

I much prefer unisex bathrooms. I've had really unpleasant experiences in female only bathrooms both at school and in public and always feel much safer in a unisex bathroom - wish there were more of them. It also means I can go to the bathroom with someone whether the person I'm with happens to be male or female.

Yes the statistics show that women are much more likely to be sexually assaulted in a mixed sex toilet which is obvious really because in single sex facilities a man shouldn't be there and it is men who do 98% of the sexual assaults.

@CripsSandwiches there’s definitely a lot of contradiction isn’t there. You’re saying girls were worst for how you look, I’d imagine that wouldn’t help a trans women either (if that’s the issue in a men’s toilet anyway).

Single sex toilets are hard enough, you’re right. That issue should be tackled way before we intermingle.

I'm not trans and really don't understand the issue with unisex toilets. I'd rather just have them all unisex, queue less and be done with it.

www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi1kpip95biAhWImBQKHf6eDiEQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.c[o.uk%2Flife-style%2Fwomen%2Funisex-toilets-period-shaming-sexual-harassment-schools-girls-womens-voices-wales-a8784226.html&psig=AOvVaw2dZwbLpRQgVSbHlyvZAykF&ust=1557782809384664

“Anxiety about coping with menstruation in schools has a serious effect on female pupils, including refusing to attend school. We are particularly concerned about any sexual harassment or intimidation taking place in mixed sex toilets.”

coral so you haven’t read the links provided detailing how unisex toilets are less safe?

What about women who are rape survivors, thought about them? What about women from cultures with attic sex segregation, have you thought about them? What about girls struggling with their periods?

Have you actually thought about anyone other than yourself?

Also it makes no sense to say have them all unisex and you'd queue less. The reason men queue less is because they all go and stand at an urinal and they're in and out in less than a minute most of them don't even wash their hands. Make them all unisex and enclosed and there will be a lot less toilets for the floor space so everybody will have to queue more.

Some trans people will have a disability which requires them to use a disabled toilet. A disabled person still has a gender and their own sexuality

Why are you explaining disability to me? I AM disabled. If someone has a disability, they can use the disabled toilets, no matter what is in their pants. If they don't, they can't. It's as simple as that.

The problem is the lack of respect for women in establishing boundaries - in saying no.
If some women want to share toilets and changing rooms and hospital wards etc with men then crack on. Your choice. But my choice, and the choice of my daughters and my friends is that we want sex segregated spaces and facilities. Why is that suddenly not allowed? Why are some people (and it is mainly men) policing us and telling us that sex segregated facilities / treatment which are lawful are wrong?

Well no. You may not erode my boundaries or the boundaries of any other women or girl just because you want to. And it is worth remembering that a massive number of men and boys also share these feelings and are also entitled to sex segregated spaces.

People who do not respect boundaries are not good people.

*The problem is the lack of respect for women in establishing boundaries - in saying no.
If some women want to share toilets and changing rooms and hospital wards etc with men then crack on. Your choice. But my choice, and the choice of my daughters and my friends is that we want sex segregated spaces and facilities. Why is that suddenly not allowed? Why are some people (and it is mainly men) policing us and telling us that sex segregated facilities / treatment which are lawful are wrong?

Well no. You may not erode my boundaries or the boundaries of any other women or girl just because you want to. And it is worth remembering that a massive number of men and boys also share these feelings and are also entitled to sex segregated spaces.*

THIS ^^

The gender neutral thing in kids clothing and toys is actually significant and I support it. It's a totally separate issue from gender neutral toilets.

It's not about 'OMG, we're not allowed to call children girls or boys anymore, they all have to be gender neutral!' or some nonsense like that.

It is about giving kids more options. Kids are rules based - they are looking for rules about how they live in this world. If we start off telling them that certain clothes and toys are 'for' boys or girls, even if we don't mean that literally, young kids do to some extent read it as those things not being allowed to them if they are the wrong sex. And this leads to the negative confines and stereotypes people grow up with.

I was delighted when John Lewis removed 'Boys' and 'Girls' from their labels, as my DD was just starting to read then and I feared she was going to start rejecting clothes because she would read 'boys' on the label (NB, she always had a mixture of stuff, we never banned pink or skirts or anything like that). And the fact is lots of 'boys' stuff is still emblasoned with active stuff like 'Explorer' or 'Superstar' or 'Racecar champ' and a lot of 'girls' stuff with passive stuff 'Smile', 'Happy' or 'Be lovely'. Any kid should be able to choose whichever sort of message they'd like to go with, and although removing gender labels won't eradicate that (I imagine most kids will still lean towards the archetypes), it will make it easier for those kids who wish to go against the flow, because they'll feel less like they're breaking some kind of rule.

The gender neutral thing in kids clothing and toys is actually significant and I support it. It's a totally separate issue from gender neutral toilets.
It's not about 'OMG, we're not allowed to call children girls or boys anymore, they all have to be gender neutral!' or some nonsense like that.
It is about giving kids more options. Kids are rules based - they are looking for rules about how they live in this world. If we start off telling them that certain clothes and toys are 'for' boys or girls, even if we don't mean that literally, young kids do to some extent read it as those things not being allowed to them if they are the wrong sex. And this leads to the negative confines and stereotypes people grow up with.
I was delighted when John Lewis removed 'Boys' and 'Girls' from their labels, as my DD was just starting to read then and I feared she was going to start rejecting clothes because she would read 'boys' on the label (NB, she always had a mixture of stuff, we never banned pink or skirts or anything like that). And the fact is lots of 'boys' stuff is still emblasoned with active stuff like 'Explorer' or 'Superstar' or 'Racecar champ' and a lot of 'girls' stuff with passive stuff 'Smile', 'Happy' or 'Be lovely'. Any kid should be able to choose whichever sort of message they'd like to go with, and although removing gender labels won't eradicate that (I imagine most kids will still lean towards the archetypes), it will make it easier for those kids who wish to go against the flow, because they'll feel less like they're breaking some kind of rule

That’s a great point and reading it I completely see what you mean and agree now it’s a good change

But yes my initial reaction was what you said before like ffs soon I can’t enjoy having a girl as they’re going to encourage everyone to be genderless now. But no I see your point

YANBU - I want to feel safe when I go to the toilet

This trans ideology dogma is pushing Women's rights back by many years. Rights that women before us have fought for are being stealthily eroded and not many people appear to give a fuck.

Most of the points I would have made about this have been put more eloquently than I could have done but I just wanted to add my recent experience of why mixed sex loos are a terrible idea from a pragmatic viewpoint (safety, privacy and dignity aside).

I was visiting a large public building that is being renovated. There are two sets of loos. In the old part of the building there are men's /women's loos; in the newly refurbished part there are mixed sex, single, straight off the corridor cubicles.

I was in the new building so headed to the unisex loos. I could smell them before I saw them. All had the seats up and wee on the floor. They were all empty as everyone (male and female) turned on their heel to find the old loos.

This meant that the women's loos had a ridiculously long queue (the men's didn't as I assume urinals are a more efficient way of doing things).

So who are the mixed sex loos for? Not the women. We don't want to hover over pissy seats. Not for the men who have any pride in their footwear.
I can only guess they are for piss-ignorant men (literally) and members of the equality committee on the building project who gave themselves a big pat on the back for being so woke and inclusive in their designs.

Not enough people give a fuck no.
But lots of people do.
We just need to be doing the right things in the right places.
Everyone with kids in schools that have mixed sex facilities, write to the school, it is illegal to have mixed sex over 8yo.
Under 18s cannot get grc so there are no exemptions for this.
Everytime you go somewhere with mixed sex toilets, ask where the single sex are and use them.
Don't join gyms without single sex facilities and tell them why.
Sign petitions, go to meetings, have a read on feminism, give whatever money you can afford.
Tell political parties why you wont be voting for them if they can't define what a women is.
Lots of small actions can make a difference. We have to make a difference because we cannot loose the rights we've fought and died for on the say so of porn soaked, woke men. No. It ain't happening while I'm alive.

Where to even begin!

There is no magic force field that keeps people with penises out of single sex female toilets. A pervert who has no qualms about peering at a woman over a cubicle wall could just as easily wait in the single-sex cubicle next to you. A more inclusive question to ask would be why can't cubicles be modified/designed with walls that reach higher and lower for privacy so no one can peer over or under.

A separate 'trans' toilet would be outing to people who don't want to announce to the world that they are part of a group that are often a target for abuse and bullying when they go to the bathroom.

Clothing and toy sections are being made gender neutral so that boys interested in dolls and pink sparkly things and girls interested in trucks and blue things don't feel ashamed for going down the aisle of their preference.

This isn't a 'phase'. Twenty years ago the internet wasn't widely available to enable groups of people who used to feel isolated and alienated for the ways they didn't fit in society's tiny boxes to learn that there are other people out there like them, as well as people out there who aren't like them but won't bash them for who they are. Things are different because we all have access to more information and many of us are comfortable with change that doesn't cause us any actual harm but makes life better for someone else.

Male, female and unisex toilets seems the best solution to safeguard as much as is possible the safety of female, transgender and transsexual women.

This article by the org FairplayForWomen discussing the issues involved with single or unisex changing rooms was helpful for me when weighing this all up. fairplayforwomen.com/changing_rooms/

20 years ago societies boxes weren't so tiny.
Maybe that has something to do with the 4000% increase in girls thinking they are trans.
When I was a girl, 20 years ago, some of us had eating disorders or cut. Or drank too much and smoked drugs, or fucked older men.
None of us were trans or later came out as trans.
Some of us are gender non conforming, some of us are still coming out as lesbians so what is the difference between now and 20 years ago??

No birdsandroses, that’s not going to work because females are still going to lose female only spaces as trans people who want to be recognised as women will still demand access to female toilets. It’s still going to be budge over women.

That magic forcefield that keeps men out of womens spaces is called cultural expectation. Its not acceptable for men to be in our spaces and neither should it be.
Pervs are gonna rape us anyway is not a good reason to give up our rights to sex segregated spaces.

There is no magic force field that keeps people with penises out of single sex female toilets. A pervert who has no qualms about peering at a woman over a cubicle wall could just as easily wait in the single-sex cubicle next to you.

I disagree. If a man is seen going into the ladies toilets then previously we could have objected and had him removed. However now all he needs to do is claim to "identify' as a woman and he can remain there. In fact I've seen people say that any woman who complained about a man being in the ladies toilets could in fact be in trouble and called a bigot.

If they were done more like disabled cubicles are, with proper doors, sinks inside etc then I think that'd be fine. But, if they're just the way they usually are now, no, that isn't safe

Women and girls being told to shove up and move over, put their own needs aside and prioritise a group of those born male.

Same old, same old.

This is not progress.