To not understand this whole non gender thing?

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What is going on? In the nicest way possible

Why are so many toilets becoming mixed gender. Many women would feel uncomfortable and vulnerable sitting on a toilet with a man outside who could peep over. It probably wouldn’t happen but in a pub for example when people are drunk it still could and for someone who has been through abuse it can be intimidating.

I just don’t understand why the tiny minority of trans etc cannot use disabled IF there is extra toilet for them, for example instead of changing toilets to mixed they should just build them another? Even clothing John Lewis gender neutral- why? If your dd wants to wear a train top just buy it? Why do we need to remove labels. I sometimes buy my dd paw patrol ‘boy’ nighties I don’t need to cry if I had to go down to the boy aisle for it.

I feel like the world is going mad

Apparently in schools there are a lot of kids now saying they have no gender- surely this is a phase if 20 years ago this wasn’t happening???

The real thing is that men need to learn to stop being dicks to gender non-conforming men, but no-one seems to want to take men to task on that one so, as always, men’s bad behaviour has become a problem for women to solve.

This!

Fucking sick of it.

I would imagine that nowhere that has simply got rid of single sex loos has done either a risk or equality impact assessment.

I think that perhaps the OP is conflating disabled loos with accessible loos which are often touted as being for all and sundry.

Ah you might be right because right now I always go in them for baby changing as that is where the drop down mat is. Like literally that is where it is placed so it’s beyond my understanding when people complain why Mother’s with buggies would go in there

I'm with you op. Mixed toilets should be built and the existing ladies and men's should stay. I don't understand why everyone has to suffer for a very small minority of people it's just fucking madness.

My dd and ds are both in secondary school and won't use the toilets there. They hold it in until they get home. All because of a handful of kids 🙄

The gender neutral toilets have always been single cubicles ime. That way whoever is using the toilet at that time is there by themselves. What I hate about them though is that every time I’ve used one the toilet pan is covered in piss. Men never seem to put the toilet seat up when using them! It would be better if they had a toilet pan and a urinal.

We’re always told to not walk alone at night, stay with friends etc.

Imagine the opportunist crimes that will happen in these scenarios when you’re drunk and find yourself alone with some nutter in the toilets.

Are they fitted with cameras? Panic alarms?

We have gender neutral toilets at work. They are self contained cubicles like disabled ones and completely enclosed so no can pop their head over. They also contain sanitary bins, sink and hand dryer so very private. More so than the toilets in normal ladies loos with the gaps and I prefer the gender neutral ones to the normal loos.

As for having trans people in public bathrooms, a trans person is more likely to be assaulted in a bathroom than to assault another person

No they're not don't spout bollocks.

Imagine the opportunist crimes that will happen in these scenarios when you’re drunk and find yourself alone with some nutter in the toilets. Are they fitted with cameras? Panic alarms? I’ve sat on a tube before and a group of boys have started verbally abusing me because I didn’t reply when one said hi, the other man near me said ignore it because he didn’t want to get beaten up. I got off the tube and waited for the next train to get back on as that’s how intimidated I was. Imagine if these types of boys were in your toilet. Even generally there is a group of a certain ethnic minority I have had issues with, walking and being chatted up, walking and cars stopping by, it scares me to think these groups of boys would be in the same toilets as my daughters, stalker kind of boys who don’t want to take the word no, call you a slag if you aren’t interested

Sex and gender are not interchangeable words, when you conflate them uncertainties arise. Sex is biological, people are either born male or female. Gender is a social construct and is about internal feelings and not wanting to conform to social expectations. People should be able to wear what they want when they want. Does anyone remember the 80s and all the New Romantics? The shock and horror expressed then was, in retrospect quite funny. What we are faced with now is a very different reality. An ideology is being pushed now that human beings can biologically change sex. Not true and never will be. When I use a public toilet I want to get in, use it and get out, I won't bother anyone else using the same toilet, if they bother me then my attitude may change. My attitude won't depend on their sex.
Women and girls right to privacy, dignity and safety is being stealthily eroded over and over again.

It isn't complicated. Males should go into the men's bathroom. That includes trans women. If the issue is men laughing at trans women, then men need to stop laughing at trans women. Nobody should be laughing at anyone else in the bathroom. But males are a danger to women in the bathroom because the dangerous ones are bigger and have male bodies, and there's no way to tell which males are dangerous or not based on what they wear, and it's not fair to discriminate against trans women based on how "feminine" they look anyway. It's not the outfits, it's the male bodies. So--men, be nice to your fellow males. And that includes those who identify as women.

I’ve been through it too. On a train alone (I was meeting a family member) I was on my second train almost 2 hours into the journey when this man started shouting to me ‘oi emo’ - I was 14, black hair and black skinny jeans. This man must have been in his late 20s and was really freaking me out to the point I had to go and sit next to an older lady and explain the situation. Thankfully she told him to back off and he left me alone.

This was on a train, in front of people! Imagine if I’d have been alone in a toilet with no escape.

I’ve been in countless situations like that as a teen and even at school, you only have to work in retail to see how many nasty people there are in this world.

Yy durgasarrow. I’m not squeamish, have fortunately not been raped or sexually abused, not Muslim or orthodox Jewish. Still don’t want to share with men. And that’s my right, and every woman’s right.

I'd be more inclined to debate this with the OP if she hadn't written Don’t see the big deal with using disabled if really obese people do, people with pushchairs, people who generally want to go for a no2.

Because that really tells me all I need to know.

I used to work with a man who trans in a woman he used to take great delight in using the ladies toilets while smirking at us as (s)he went in we did ask if (s)he could use the disabled loo and was told that his/her rights trumped ours and there was nothing they could do by law

A club I go to often has changed their toilets to be unisex. It is disgusting now to use the toilets cos of drunk men pissing everywhere but in the toilet seat. Not to mention the toilet attendants now make women go to the end to use the toilet and the men to use the first lot - kind of defeats the purpose right as we are all being seperated.

Just have 4 types of toilets, unisex, men and women and disabled.

Not to mention some men just pissing without shutting the door

Dishing it really doesn’t as the Op has explained.

Even clothing John Lewis gender neutral- why?

What a weird and completely inane point. You sound a bit hysterical and silly to be honest. Why do we need to stereotype little kids. My DD loves dinosaurs and trains and traditionally boys stuff. She loves clothes with it on too but she won't wear something that says it's for boys because she knows she's a girl. Why can't you buy clothes according to what the child likes - why do you need it labelled according to gender?

Let's call them what they are. They are unisex and they are putting women at risk.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html%3famp

DishingOutDone don’t worry I don’t like your tone to ‘debate’ with you anyway

Here you are OP - mixed sex changing rooms etc put women at greater risk from sexual assaults. That's why the World Health Organisation advocates installing single sex toilets for women and girls the world over - to save women from the rape and assault that happens to them. Sadly in this country there are many misogynists determined to ignore the reality of the lives of women and girls in favour of the demands of a minority.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

All toilets are already gender neutral.
What they are not, and never should be is sex neutral.
As in, a woman, adult human female, of any gender, if you are so inclined to have a gender, can use the women's facilities.
We separate facilities by sex for a reason.
Reasons. Those reasons are the safety, dignity and privacy of women and girls.
Anyone who doesnt think those reasons are good enough is a misogynist.
We have rights, based on our sex, rights that we've fought and died for, rights that are written into law (for now), I'm not OK with those rights being given away or tossed aside.
I don't actually care all that much about men's feeling about it. We've got enough to do without pandering to men.
I will die on this hill. #spartacus

So if these people were in the women's bathroom then you'd all be cool because they were born women?

@Jellybeansincognito

Yes those things have happened to me as a teenager as I was "alternative" this was before emo. The only time I was a victim of violence was actually in a women's toilets from a group of girls, (I found girls far more likely to pick on me for how I dressed than boys). Male friends were also picked on in public as you describe. Single sex toilets wouldn't help that in the slightest.

What a weird and completely inane point. You sound a bit hysterical and silly to be honest. Why do we need to stereotype little kids. My DD loves dinosaurs and trains and traditionally boys stuff. She loves clothes with it on too but she won't wear something that says it's for boys because she knows she's a girl. Why can't you buy clothes according to what the child likes - why do you need it labelled according to gender? I suppose I feel the word gender is everywhere now and it’s annoying.
I looked on John Lewis website the other day and I had to filter so much to get what so wanted. Why instead can’t they just make girls clothes with those logos on and in those colours? Like I said I just shop in boys if I need to eg get a paw patrol character my dd would like, I don’t feel now all the shops need to not section the clothes, because otherwise dresses will be with obvious boys T-shirt’s and it will get extremely long to shop!!
if John Lewis made a dress with a dinosaur on it it would be the same thing - why don’t they just do that