to keep nagging DH over his drinking

[roaringespresso]

Very brief background, DH had an accident at work over 2 years ago that has left him in constant pain and depression and anxiety as a result. He was made redundant a few months as a result of the accident. Mentally he is not able to back to work and physically he can no longer do the job he has done for the past 20 years.

His life has changed dramatically and he has become socially reclusive as his injury means he can no longer do the physical things he used to. i.e. hobbies etc. His mental health means he finds it difficult being around others. He is undergoing treatment for all of this and has been told his injury is probably life long.

We have 2 preschool children and I work part time in an admin role. Now he's not working we have to rely on benefits to top up our income. I am looking into studying to gain a qualification in an area I'm interested in as A. we need more money and B. DH is around to look after the children to allow me to study. I couldn't have done this if he was still working the hours he did previously.

The past couple of years have taken a toll on us, understandably. I also have depression and anxiety and have been on medication since being on mat leave with my youngest. I have been trying very hard to get my mental health in a better place and have done this through counselling, better diet and exercise. Along with mindfulness. I know what makes me feel better and I try to stick to this although it is difficult at times and find myself slipping as stress is my trigger.

DH seems unable to help himself in any of these ways and expects a quick and easy fix although, for obvious reasons, this doesn't work!

He's finding it hard being with the kids all day and has always been terrible at managing his time so complains he doesn't have time for himself. I give him lots of advice on different ways this could improve as he does have a lot of time to himself when the kids are at nursery but he doesn't do anything with it.

He's always been a big drinker and it is something I've broached a lot of the years even before the accident. I was too and still have blow outs myself more often than I should however I am no where near where I was and his is getting worse. I've talked and talked to him about this and nothing ever changes.

He says he needs it to help him sleep because of the medication he is on. And also because of the pain he is in. He also says he drinks to make himself numb.

Currently he's drinking heavily probably 5 nights out of 7. He gets very drunk. An example being Tuesday night when the football was on. I came home at 9pm from work and he was very drunk and shouting and swearing at the tv. The kids were awake upstairs in their bed with their tablet. I went straight to my bed as I could not be bothered dealing with him. He drank a litre bottle of (my) white wine and also a litre bottle of his red. He has never drank white wine in the whole time we've been together but has been drinking "mine" lately when he finishes his or if mine has been left in the fridge.

He has since been drunk Thurs, Fri and last night. His excuses for drinking are: he's had a good day, he's had a bad day, he's stressed out, he needs to sleep, the sun is shining, the football is on... The list is endless.

He says he knows he has a problem and he will reduce his drinking and it never ever happens. Not even a slight reduction.

Last night he stopped off for 4 beers after taking the kids to the park. He finished them about 6 and then he made an excuse that he needed to get me something from the shop (that I said I didn't need) and he then said it was for wine. He came back and I said I was going to my bed as I didn't want to spend Saturday night with him drunk so he could be alone and so would I and I hope he enjoyed himself. I said we'd have a word tomorrow about it. He rolled his eyes and said no we won't. Normally he's contrite but last night was the first time where it was if he was thinking "fuck off".

I've told him that I don't like drunk him and I certainly don't want to have sex with him when he's been drinking, nothing makes a difference. We used to have sex a lot and were very close and now I just feel disgust and resentment.

I don't know where to go from here. I feel like I'm nagging him constantly and it's now making no difference!

So glad to hear it. Well done.

@prawn I had missed your earlier message that you gave up, as did your father. So there IS hope @roaring. And as I said before, I hoped people would come on here with stories of successful outcomes so I bow to @prawn's experience and advice and say, if she says so, the email does indeed sound a good idea (as well as Al Anon).

Also reiterate what @prawn said about not to minimise.

Not sure why the extra stars were added there!

And it looks like I'm a much slower typer than I thought since there have been new messages since I started.

You're getting some really good advice on here and it sounds like you're thinking it all through properly so that's really great. Well done, again. It must be hard to face.

Don’t blame yourself for your DC overhearing OP, if your DH didn’t have the issue or was working on it as he has so often promised he would, you wouldn’t need to would you? Please don’t guilt yourself for his mistakes.

What worries me is you’ve mentioned all benefits are paid into his account. I’d first get this changed to your account details if possible before taking further steps (whatever they may be).

My Grandparents were alcoholics and they raised me, my brother and sister. Of the two my Grandfather was the worst (he’d polish off 5-6 large bottles of Brandy most days). Like you described for your DH, he lost his job at 48 due to illnesses that carried over from his working in the pits, he couldn’t get another job as his breathing was so laboured he was described as having “half a functioning lung” so this took away a lot of his stamina for his hobbies too (woodwork projects, landscaping, motorcycling etc.) so he drank to numb the depression, boredom etc and my Gran enabled him further and further. He died of Liver failure at the age of 54. I still remember how yellow the whites of his eyes had become but was too young (14/15) to realise that was because he had drank to the point of severe jaundice.

The strong and loving man he could be was overshadowed by his drunken self, he scared us when he was so far gone he couldn’t even walk properly. In the last few years of his life he slept solely on the settee and would fall off on many occasions and be unable to get up properly because of his pain/drunkenness, so he would shout me downstairs at odd hours to help put him back on the settee, I’d get him some water and food if I could convince him to eat and that has affected me a hell of a lot more than I realised back then. I’m 30 now and it’s only just starting to hit me how messed up it has made me at times.

My Granddad was rarely abusive (he and my Gran had their moments though!) but his drinking really affected me and my brother and sister. Your DH’s problem is just that, his.

My DH was a big drinker when I met him and you’d think with my history I’d have run a mile when he started to become dependent. But I was lucky enough that he genuinely wanted to change because he couldn’t continue that way and with the experience of my childhood I had to essentially ‘parent’ him through it. We have been together for many years now with two beautiful DC so they can change. But it has to come from within xx

There's someone on here who lost her daughter due to drinking in sole charge of her kids, which your DH is doing. This is very serious.

I'm thinking if I write it down just stating facts then it might get through to him? Or am I just kidding myself

It might get through to you though, when you see it all in black and white.

Sometimes my love it comes down to the following outcomes:

1. He will drink himself to death (or a life not far from it) after you end the relationship not because you end the relationship - it's not your burden.

1. He will drink himself to death (or a life not far from it) while you and your kids watch him do so in the family home. God forbid you pass away before him they will have been through that and then take on responsibility for him. That makes it their burden, for life.

1. He will get better because he's had a reality check that must involve not living in the family environment any more and be able to reintegrate into your lives healthily with a LOT of work.

1. He will get better because he's had a reality check that must involve not living in the family environment any more and not be able to reintegrate into your lives but your children will be more likely to have healthy boundaries.

I feel so much for you and hope that you find the strength to confront this stark reality, for you and the kids xxx

Biscuitfriend - I've never heard of that book before I may check it out, I have OCD and perfectionism is very much a trait of mine.

I'm 46 and I too am a mess despite having left home almost 30 years ago and having had periods of Nc with my dad. My feelings about him are very conflicted.

"I shouldn't have brought it up in front of them last night. I will be more careful about that" if you think they aren't hyper aware of what's going on without you mentioning anything you really are kidding yourself.

Prawn - with respect your perspective & experience is very different to that of us on the other side of your situation. Please don't dismiss our experiences.

Addicts by nature tend to be very self centric - in my experience even after they hit sobriety. I've a family stuffed full of addicts - not just to alcohol but also drugs (street & other), gambling, exercise & spending (only just starting to be recognised). Several have achieved sobriety but that's rarely if ever the end of the story. Then of course there's the "dry drunk". I can spot an addict - active or sober at 30 paces generally, there are some indicators that never go.

"You could always suggest a temporary separation. A chance for him to get his act together and prove to you he's serious about giving up alcohol. He might then realise what he has to lose. At the moment he knows he can carry on drinking and nothing will happen." Agree with this, although honestly personally I don't think you're doing your kids any good at all staying.

The addicts in my family only quit when they hit bottom or had serious ultimatums put to them. There are various routes to sobriety, AA is much talked about but it's not the only option.

Wizzywig - I WISH the authorities were of any use with addiction intervention I've witnessed/heard of some real horror stories. The problem is addiction is so rife there can never be enough resources to deal with it.

"And then there's the safety angle. A drunk looking after preschool children puts them at risk. You shouldn't let him do it, tbh." On this I totally agree, I'd even say not to leave him alone with them until they're much older if at all - depends what he's like when he drinks. Some drunks are fairly benign but others can be scarily neglectful or even abusive/aggressive

Kellyw88 if they're his benefits they can only be paid into an account with his name on generally. Some addicts partners/spouses/parents under the old system used to be able to apply for differentiation on this for such circumstances but I think that's gone now. However yes if they're joint/relating to the kids then yes they should be going into OP'S account

He's an out and out alcoholic.
No doubt about that.
he will pull you down with him if needs be, because the drink will always come first for him.
Always.
You cannot win against alcohol.
that is no 1for him now and until he goes into his grave.
but you knew this already.
sling him out or else leave.

My stomach has dropped reading the most recent replies. I feel very scared and alone now.

I thought I could handle it when I first started posting but now I feel out of my depth.

Don't panic.

Contact Al-anon, they will be able to help you. One step at a time.

The point of the replies from some of us who have been where you are is... take it seriously, look after yourself and don’t trust him to support you. Where alcohol is concerned you can’t trust someone. The positive thing that you need to realise is that you can do it alone. In fact you already are! So don’t be scared of that.

@Graphista - Having sat down after I posted that I was about to read it, and read some of it I can say to you that it is out of date (written in the 80s) and rather outdated in terms of what constitues alcoholism, gender roles etc. BUT there was enough in the first 36 pages (which I was skimming thinking, this isn't for me...and this isn't for me) to make me recognise myself, start howling, put the book down, call a friend and head out of the house (and out of my head).

I am now back home :)

I think I would still recommend the book, despite its datedness, since I think maybe you are like me - coming to terms in our 40s with what actually happened back there in our childhoods despite it being minimised by our non-alcoholic parent.

I am going to type this bit out for you since it was the last bit I read and was what made me cry:

QUOTED FROM PERFECT DAUGHTERS, ADULT DAUGHTERS OF ALCOHOLICS BY ROBERT ACKERMAN, PG 35-36. ONE OF THE RECOMMENDED READINGS FROM THE NACOA WEBSITE (www.nacoa.org.uk/adults/books.html)

----

Did you unintentionally learn any of the following lessons as a daughter in an alcoholic family?

If I can control everything, I can keep my family from becoming upset.
If I can please everyone, everyone will be happy.
It is my fault and I am to blame when. trouble occurs.
Those who love you the most are those who cause you the most pain.
If I don't get too close emotionally, you cannot hurt me.
It is my responsibility to ensure that everyone in the family gets along with each other.
Take care of others first.
Nothing is wrong, but I don't feel right.
Expressing anger is not appropriate.
Something is missing in my life.
I'm unique and my family is different from all other families.
I can deny anything.
I am not a good person.
I am responsible for the success of a relationship.
For something to be acceptable, it must be perfect.

All of the messages above have one thins in common which is that they have negative consequences for your own growth and recovery as an adult daughter. These childhood lessons become imprints or beliefs that you have about yourself and they begin to dictate your expectations of yourself and your behaviours. If you examine these lessons closely, you will see that living by these "rules" will lead to a life out of balance.

----

And it goes on. I have flipped through to the end and there is a lot about recovery, about growing from being the adult daughter of an alcoholic parent to being your own person. I'll carry on having a flick through and finding bits that are useful to me. I'm also seeing a counsellor now that I'm at a stage in life where I can tackle this.

Hope it helps you.

And @roaringespresso hopefully it also gives you an insight into the unseen damage alcoholism does. Might help spur you on to help your little ones with their part this situation.

@roaringespresso Just seen your recent update (I was busy typing something for Graphista). You're not alone. This is massive for me too.

Let's do it together. And you have all of the people on here standing with you and sending you support. You are doing the right thing and you can do this.

Shall we call a helpline tomorrow? Al-Anon maybe? I am doing the school run then working then doing the school run, but I can maybe fit it into my lunch hour. Can you fit it in too? We can report back on here?

Let me just say it again. You are not alone. I know this is words on a screen, but I am real and so are the other posters on your thread. I'm sitting here in my kitchen, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, I'm wearing a blue dress and I need to eat something. If you lived across the road or nearby, I could pop in and see how you're getting on.

You're not alone.

@roaringespresso

I'm so sorry if I contributed to you feeling worse, it's genuinely because I don't want you to go through the latter stages of this situation that are so awful and traumatic.

We are all here for you and listening I promise xxx

Prawn - with respect your perspective & experience is very different to that of us on the other side of your situation. Please don't dismiss our experiences.

You didn't read my post, or you skimmed it. Because otherwise you'd know I have been in your position. I am the adult child of an alcoholic. I didn't dismiss anything. I wrote:

Those who have been very badly affected by an alcoholic who kept drinking are bound to think that drinkers never listen to reason.

And many (?most) posters here have said that alcoholics never stop drinking, when the truth is that some do. Permanently. And the realisation that you're going to lose your marriage and family can trigger this change. It did for me and it did for DF. So it's well worth OP trying one last time to get her DH to understand just how much he has to lose.

As for bizarre claims about being able to spot even sober alcoholics at 30 paces... I wouldn't know where to start...

Except to say that to address me with respect seems pretty disingenuous. I see no respect. I see prejudice and stereotyping.

I hate to have contributed to you feeling more scared. All I can tell you is about my experiences with my ex. He had a dreadful childhood of neglect and no love so he turned to alcohol to block out the pain. Your husband is a different person with different life experiences. Plenty of people in his position turn their lives around. Don't give up hope at all but be realistic. Hoping he can overcome this.

here are 2 al-anon groups near me, I too would be going to the further away one! Are they not just for alcoholics to go to? I would definitely like a friend in this!

NRTFT, just had to jump in on this. You should go. Al-anon is the support organization for family and friends of alcoholics. AA, or Alcoholics Anonymous is the group for the alcoholics themselves. You'll get a lot of practical advice and support at al-anon.

I'm a recovering alcoholic with 25 years of sobriety. It is possible to "win" and stop drinking. I know dozens of people in long term sobriety.

Addiction is a medical condition:

Molecular basis of alcoholism

He's addicted, as spelled out above. He gets sick when he tries to stop. He can stop, but only with help. As in medical and peer support. But first he has to work through that he wants to stop.

OP are you in the UK? The local drug and alcohol service may have a family or concerned others group. Sometimes need to look the organisation up on fb for the details but there are lots about, might be worth talking to others in your situation. Hope that helps.

Biscuitfriend thanks for that, yes I can relate to almost all of those. That desperate need to fix, control, "make it all better" and when I can't feeling a complete failure as I do now.

Op you're not alone, far from it there are thousands of us with addicts in our close family and friends and pps are right you ARE already doing it, holding it together for you and your kids, so you can move forward.

Prawn I DID read your post thoroughly, just because I've said something you disagree with doesn't mean I haven't. While you have also been the child of an alcoholic, by way of being one yourself your experience IS different. You have a perspective on the issue that we don't share, so equally you don't know our experience of not having become addicts ourselves.

I never denied that addicts that have achieved sobriety exist, I don't recall anyone saying that (though happy to be corrected if so) instead I said that in my experience they rarely do so without a clear wake up call and that even achieving sobriety doesn't mean that all the problems associated with addiction go away - which is true. I will add that in my experience the most successful in achieving and maintaining sobriety in a healthy way are those that recognise this.

I've not been proven wrong yet in spotting active or sober addicts when introduced in real life.

As for "I see prejudice and stereotyping" not in my case, purely opinion based on several decades of experience with addicts of all kinds (by which I don't mean whatever their addiction of choice is but the way it's manifested for them, if they've attempted, achieved and maintained sobriety and how).

I've not been proven wrong yet in spotting active or sober addicts when introduced in real life.

There are no reliable external indicators that someone is in remission from a substance abuse disorder.

This is an awfull situation for you and the children to be in roaring espresso, and I can't but help having a bit of sympathy for your husband. Is there absoulty nothing that can be done to cure the problem of the accident at all as it seems to me thats the root cause of most all of this.

I expect you may well have asked for help via his GP or a similat chanell? Is there something thay can do?

Morning.

I read all of your messages last night and have been thinking over everything. I didn't send him an email or even draft one as I don't know what to say or where to begin. Plus I don't have the energy right now to discuss it with him. I have been in bed all weekend with some kind of virus and still feeling awful today.

I am still intending to contact al-anon and hopefully will get a chance today. I was hoping to be feeling a bit better and could go out for some shopping and do it then when he's not around. I'll see how I'm feeling later.

Justaboy It has been very difficult for him, for all of us, since the accident. He is in chronic pain and on a cocktail of medication that have horrible side effects. He is receiving treatment from a psychologist and physio. He has not told any health professionals how bad his drinking is.

biscuitfriend Good luck today with your call to al-anon. Please let me know how it goes.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. All the nagging and begging in the world won’t change his behaviour. All you can do is change your response to it. Please do contact Al Anon.

Has he been to a pain clinic? They can sometimes help advise on the side effects and different combinations to try