To find this unreasonable and offensive to women or is it just me?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

Saw this on twitter and this rhetoric seems to be spreading. So is it just me or are others concerned with this? How does this help women and girls, especially with the turn this has taken in the US recently.

So just to clarify, apparently in a discussion regarding the attack on women’s reproductive health, the most important issue isn’t the fact that women are having the ability to access removed, it’s that someone on the internet doesn’t like the word “woman”? And THAT’S what they see as the issue?

Similarly in a discussion surrounding gaining support following m/c, the issue isn’t the lack of funding and need for charities to offer support, it’s the fact we addresses women who have had a m/c. I mean that’s totally the important thing right?

It would be laughable if it wasn't so depressing.

I also hate the word cis (as you can tell from my name ) and vociferously object to it being applied to me in RL. The irony of being called something (which is bollocks anyway) I don't want to be called, by people telling me we can't call them something (which is factually correct) they don't want to be called, is also laughable yet depressing.

I don't actually conform to gender stereotyping but I am a woman and always will be.

Is the OP about the removal of reproductive rights?

Yes. The post it's about is discussing criminalising abortion. It's saying that this is not a women's issue and the word women should not be used in the discussion. There is a photo attached to the OP- is that not showing for you?

Getting back to the actual topic - women have to be centred in this, if the word 'people' is used instead it allows the misogynists who are steadfastly trying to remove reproductive rights to claim it isn't an attack on women at all. It will be a law that affects people in general so no misogyny involved. Using the word 'women' means we can focus on what is really happening.

It should say “women (and transmen)”

It really shouldn't.

OP the Repeal the 8th campaign for long-awaited abortion rights in Ireland booted out anyone who objected to their assertion that not only women get pregnant therefore we have to say "pregnant people". It happened about 33 years into a 35 year campaign when the movement became dominated by young woke pomo eejits and TRAs. It was painful to watch. Amazingly it was only one kind of woman who had unplanned pregnancies all those years, and they weren't able to indulge in "identifying" out of that.

I forgot to say the important bit which is that the whole point of being pro choice is that we believe only women have the right to say what happens to our bodies.

Eyes on the prize. Isn't it hard sometimes, though?

I sometimes wonder if all this (I'm a woman let's talk about me not the actual point under discussion) is an undercover attempt to distract from what is the main issue.

Please don't ask JAPAB to elaborate, he will, at length, and in the process take the thread miles away from the topic.

I'm going to ask every person who says it to explain why pregnant transmen are not women, because I just don't understand what they mean.

I'm very aware that some people may not be motivated by respect for women but I think sunlight is the best disinfectant.

And people made that point more succinctly whilst I was rectifying my error of missing it from my original post

That is exactly what it is! It's part of a backlash against the rights women have got, and those who buy into this crap are doing the work of the religious right no matter how 'woke' they claim to be.

So just to clarify, apparently in a discussion regarding the attack on women’s reproductive health, the most important issue isn’t the fact that women are having the ability to access removed, it’s that someone on the internet doesn’t like the word “woman”? And THAT’S what they see as the issue?

Yes, now you're getting it.

It's very much like the American civil rights movement, really, and fascistic concepts like the ones you think are important are just the next barriers to be broken down in the name of the struggle for justice.

JIbjab has a track record if derailing threads to be the centre of attention and have scores of women flapping around him. He doesn’t even believe what he’s saying, just stirring. It’s up to you if you want to pander to him. I started this thread aimed at the women on mumsnet and what their thoughts were.

I don't normally respond to this sort of thing, but will make an exception here. I think you will find that my posts (barring this one) are 100% on topic. Now if people like you want to derail a thread by posting comments about me personally, then tht is on you. I will happily just stick to the subject. But please do not say that I am derailing the thread or making it about me, when it is you that is doing that. I am posting 100% on topic, the whole topic, and nothing but the topic. And now back to the topic.

Yes. The post it's about is discussing criminalising abortion. It's saying that this is not a women's issue and the word women should not be used in the discussion. There is a photo attached to the OP- is that not showing for you?

Yes, and that post says nothing about reproductive rights for women not being discussed. It asks people to recognise that others get pregnant to and to not exclude them by using language that assumes ONLY women are affected.

Yes, and that post says nothing about reproductive rights for women not being discussed. It asks people to recognise that others get pregnant to and to not exclude them by using language that assumes ONLY women are affected

And it’s saying that the threat to reproductive rights isn’t the important issue, it’s about the use of a word. Which is why women’s reproductive rights are under fire, men are making decisions.

Thinking it’s women who get pregnant is an ideology now is it? Stupid knows no limits.
Thanks for the tip OP I’ve no interest in engaging with men on this topic.

See what I mean ^

It's quite a clever tactic, not only can they erase women, which means they can discriminate against and subjugate them without facing any accusations of misogyny, they've also managed to get supposedly enlightened left-wing liberals to do all the dirty work for them.

No human who is not a woman can get pregnant. My five year old understands that. How can an adult not?

Lifeinthelastlane they do understand it, they just don't think women are important.

Japab. It does rather seem like you are deliberately missing the point to keep things going in circles. I'll ask my question again to see if we can get somewhere on understanding each other:

do you really think a pregnant transman is male? I don't mean 'should be treated as male' because obviously people should be kind, I mean actually male because of what they wear or how they describe themselves.

donquixotedelamancha please don't. I understand why you want to engage with him, but you won't get an answer you'll just give him the means to derail the thread.

As a woman in the US in a state which is close to passing Georgia-esq abortion bans, this isn't top of my list of concerns. But, there's a hell of a lot of nuance to this issue.

Anti-LGBT hate crime and victimisation is also a huge thing in these states... often driven by the same groups as part of the same agenda. I can very easily see trans or non-binary people being among the first to be arrested and prosecuted through the heartbeat bill (and similar bills elsewhere) due to their visibility and the thinly-veiled hatred the perpetrators of these bills feel towards them. By default, identifying as LGBT means you don't conform with their worldview, making them non-people to the Christian right.

The anti-abortion agenda specifically targets Planned Parenthood clinics. PP are not just abortion providers and will often be one of the few clinical settings where trans people can access affordable reproductive and sexual healthcare tailored to their community's specific needs. Abortion is the headline issue for the Christian right, but as the Hobby Lobby ruling shows it's not their sole issue: gender non-conformance, sexual freedom and the LGBT community are up there and getting at PP is one of the easiest ways to get at them.

These cases can and will be used as stepping stones to further tighten reproductive and sexual freedom, irrespective of gender. The precedent they set will restrict women's rights even further. From that perspective, it is extremely important that any resistance efforts have an intersectional focus.

donquixotedelamancha please don't. I understand why you want to engage with him, but you won't get an answer you'll just give him the means to derail the thread.

Second this. It's like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I don’t see how, in this particular subject using the word people would be of any detriment to women

Then you are not looking hard enough.

From that perspective, it is extremely important that any resistance efforts have an intersectional focus.

By denying the reality that only women can get pregnant? It's not "intersectional". It's female erasure. It's pandering to an untruth. And it will harm women worldwide in the long run.

SpaceCadet4000 I agree that LGBT people will be targeted, but abortion is still a women's issue. The suggestion that women should not be centred in any debate around it is beyond offensive, and plays into the hands of the people who wish to remove their access to all reproductive rights.

And the fact that it isn't top of your list of concerns doesn't mean it isn't a very real and dangerous concern for other women.