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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Some vegans say it's wrong to keep pets

186 replies

learieonthewildmoor · 09/05/2019 18:32

I have been thinking about the ethics of keeping pets. (I saw on the PETA website we shouldn't use animals for entertainment. No more cute cat videos on YouTube then?) People love their pets. How can it be wrong?

Sometimes when my cat is sleeping, I think "Now is the time for me to gallop across the bed, making a graceful leap over him", like he does at 4 o'clock in the morning. However, I never do.
He comes to the door whenever I come home, and though I pretend to myself he's welcoming me back; I suspect he is really looking to see if he can escape out onto the driveway. When he does make a mad dash out onto the driveway, he then lies down purring whereupon I pick him up and carry him back in.
I keep a chair next to my computer because he likes to sit next to me. Pretty much every day he sits on my computer mouse until I get up and let him sit in my chair. Then I pick him up and put him on his chair and he goes to sleep.
When he sees me carrying a coffee cup up the stairs, he runs ahead of me and jumps out at my ankles. Only when I'm carrying a coffee cup.
He has a dozen toys but much prefers to bring in leaves and gum nuts which he then puts in my shoes for safe keeping.
He won't eat raw meat so we buy a super expensive dry cat food for his teeth and gums. He hates tablets so we buy the super expensive worm and flea liquid treatment.
I send photos of him to my husband when he is at work. There one million photos of the cat sleeping on our iCloud.

We got him as a rescue kitten and I can't help feeling he's having a better life with us; rather than as a feral animal full of worms and fleas with no safe territory, or euthanised. We get the pleasure of living with him, he gets a good life - it seems like a perfectly ethical arrangement.
I wonder if vegans are being a bit too self-denying and overly rigorous?

Another day I want to talk about the vegan attitude to cheese.

OP posts:
MadamMMA · 10/05/2019 14:12

Some also believe that service dogs eg Guide Dogs are enslaved

BertrandRussell · 10/05/2019 14:17

I have. Friend who is not vegetarian,vegan or a member of PETA who thinks that keeping animals as pets is fine, but all service or working animals are enslaved and it should be illegal to keep them.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/05/2019 14:17

My point, probably poorly made, Multicolour was that depending on what you read you get a different tale. PETA are very good at lying, telling different tales. It has long been their stock in trade!

I should have looked for an irony emoticon to go after the last line of my post "Settled out of court so we never got official verirification of their having been invited in the first place [shoulder shrug style emotion]"

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/05/2019 14:19

And just to be picky

Hence the $49,000 payout they had to make to the family. could be to make the family take their nasty, PETA hating, law suit away

Did you see their intial defence - a pet has no intrinsic value so there could be no compensation?

AvocadosBeforeMortgages · 10/05/2019 16:09

Guide Dogs are frequently failed from the training programme when they're not very good at it, not enjoying it etc. They then go onto live comfortable pet lives instead - so it's only those that actually want to be there that end up working as guide dogs

Mind you, I've long been of the opinion that working dogs (especially police sniffer dogs and the like) have a better life than most pet dogs because they get to play games and go walkies with their humans all day long (and they do consider their work to be a game) and then go back to sleep at the human's house after work.

They're better off than many a bored pug, even if the latter is having afternoon tea at the Ritz.

learieonthewildmoor · 10/05/2019 16:21

Some very interesting POVs here!
I have to disagree with the "taking ownership of a sentient being=wrong" notion: that's suggesting dogs shouldn't be trained or walk on a leash.
Children are sentient, but we certainly don't think it wrong to restrain them from certain behaviours. It's about living with others and observing the social norms that enable us all to be safe.
The social benefit people derive from companion animals is not negligible. I am surprised some people view this as selfish.

I am not entirely persuaded by the effect on climate argument. Air conditioning and heating and cars etc are much bigger factors. Pet food is a by-product of human food. It's not the production of pet food that is causing huge environmental problems, it's food for people.
As for contributing to the pet industry, we're getting into an argument about capitalism as a whole.

I'm really surprised by the view that whether pet owners treat their pets well is irrelevant. That's the crux of the question!

I think this argument has been around for a long time. Maybe that's why there's that line in Genesis about animals "and man shall have dominion over them all". The man who wrote it was all "huh, that will show Barry and his 'shearing sheep is oppression!'."

I can't come at PETA at all, their advertising campaigns are just short of misogyny. I looked up their website quickly just to clarify a question.

OP posts:
notatwork · 10/05/2019 16:32

The hard;ine Vegan/ARA approach is 'no animal products, no use of animals. No compromise'. Hence the PETA kill shelters US new laws to encourage shelter to rehome .

Hithere12 · 10/05/2019 16:48

You frustrate so many of their natural instincts and they lack the capacity to know they're better off than they would be in the wild

No lol. A domesticated dog would not survive in the wild. Even if as a puppy it was put straight into the wild it has been domesticated for too long of a period. Cats can survive but not dogs.

No, they said they had been invited in by a park owner, so ostensibly they had permission to be there, to collect 'feral cats and wild dogs

Sorry but how on earth would they spot a “feral cat”?! How would they know it’s not a pet?

Hithere12 · 10/05/2019 16:59

we shouldn't be keeping pets due to the environmental damage they cause. They are a luxury the planet can not afford

It is much more environmentally friendly to own a pet than to have a child. One of the main reasons being that the pet will be neutered. If you have a child there’s an 80% chance they themselves will have children, who will then have children, and on and on.

missyfafa · 10/05/2019 17:43

There are plenty of wild dogs in India surviving very well, many of them once belonged to someone but them got abandoned. They live in packs and feed off rubbish that tourists leave behind.

Sosayi · 10/05/2019 17:55

All medications are tested on animals in the uk as far as I can tell when reading up on this
There are some vegan alternatives for some stuff but pretty much everything medicine has to be tested on animals in the uk
If this is the case and I like I wrote above it certainly seems to be the case
It’s one of the many reasons I find the vegans /vegetarians that I know very hypocritical and annoying

Loyaultemelie · 10/05/2019 18:07

I'm a low dairy (ibs) vegetarian and I have pets. 2 dogs, hens (rescue) a goat (also rescued), 2 psychotic guinea pigs and a few sheep. I'm also lucky enough to be owned enslaved by 2 cats.
I also love cheese and despite the catastrophic effect it has on me, is the only reason I'm not vegan

sweetkitty · 10/05/2019 18:13

I’m a totally shit vegan in that I have got 6 pets but one is a bearded dragon whom I got ore vegan days. To keep him alive I have to feed him live locusts, I do make sure the locusts are well looked after right up until they are crunched and munched. He is a rescued dragon though, much neglected pets, people get them because they look cool mini dinosaurs but they are exotic pets that need a specialist set up and care (he has his poo tested twice a year at £40 a pop for instance).

sweetkitty · 10/05/2019 18:15

Oh on the medicine front, we vegans try to do as less harm as we can. I have to take medication or I would be seriously unwell. There are times you can’t help it. You just got to do the best you can.

Taffeta · 10/05/2019 18:15

We have a rescue cat

Cats I justify as ok as they are free to come and go as they please

In good weather we see little of our cat during the day

I've never been comfortable with animals kept in cages (hamsters, guinea pigs, chickens etc) or horses and horse riding and racing. The fact that a horse needs to be "broken in" seems very wrong.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 10/05/2019 18:53

There are plenty of wild dogs in India surviving very well, many of them once belonged to someone but them got abandoned. They live in packs and feed off rubbish that tourists leave behind.
You get street/village dogs like this all over the world. Puppy mortality is massively high, and the ones that survive are often 'sort-of' owned by someone, who favours that puppy for scraps or whatever. Some dogs do well, others less so - mange is common. The main point is that these dogs need humans to survive in any numbers.

oabiti · 10/05/2019 19:45

How many dogs are left alone for eight or more hours every day?

Well, yes, because I have to work. Or are you telling me that I should give up my job, potentially become homeless, just so I can be by their side 24-7? Hmm

In a perfect world, yes, perhaps we could all lounge about with our beloved animals, not having to work or worry about money...

I don't like the fact I have to leave them (although I do have a son in your house all day), so what realistic choice to I have?

oabiti · 10/05/2019 19:46

In *my" house,not yours🤔

TheGoogleMum · 10/05/2019 19:51

Sorry if its already been said I'm being lazy and not reading all the posts... but cats basically domesticated themselves. They have a mutually beneficial relationship with humans. Enjoy cat videos guilt free!

Downunderduchess · 11/05/2019 03:03

I'm vegan and I have had pets, I don't know anyone who is vegan that would be against it. I think it's more to do with using animals for some type of financial gain, racing them, circuses etc. that is not in the best interest of the animals. Having pets and providing them with a safe loving & nurturing environment is a beautiful thing you & your pets both benefit from. Especially if you are rescuing animals from shelters etc.

TheSerenDipitY · 11/05/2019 04:33

why on earth would you take advice from PETA????
you do realise the PETA animal shelters are NOT no kill shelters dont you?
they euthanize ( KILL) more animals than most other shelters, like spca etc do
not only are they militant vegans but they are hypocrites too

MontStMichel · 11/05/2019 06:48

We have two rescue cats, born feral in December and caught in a TNR. They are very grateful to live in a house, with a never ending supply of food, affection, warmth, medical care and a micro chip flap, so they can come and go as they please!

Being cats, if they did not like it here, they could just walk off!

We used to have two other cats, lived in a nearby house, with 3 young children - the cats lived in our house from 8 am - 8 pm. We guess the cats didn’t like the children, and went home after the children went to bed! We weren’t the only people they visited, they went in everybody’s houses and ate their cat food. In the end, the owner told me one of them walked off and went to live down the street with someone else!

MontStMichel · 11/05/2019 06:50

Both our cats are proficient hunters, hence the cat flap is locked to let them in at night, but not out - so they can support themselves!

GottenGottenGotten · 11/05/2019 07:54

If I had a cat flap it would be the other way round. Locked to let them out at night but not in... Because I know one of my cat would drag things into the house that I don't want...

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 11/05/2019 08:32

PETA are stupid. They are the sort of people who if they say one thing make me want to do the opposite.

They'd hate me. I have a cat and he's not free to roam as the garden is cat proofed. However I didn't spend the money for my entertainment but for his safety. I would also have another cat in the future as I'm sure a cat is far better for the environment than a child!