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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Some vegans say it's wrong to keep pets

186 replies

learieonthewildmoor · 09/05/2019 18:32

I have been thinking about the ethics of keeping pets. (I saw on the PETA website we shouldn't use animals for entertainment. No more cute cat videos on YouTube then?) People love their pets. How can it be wrong?

Sometimes when my cat is sleeping, I think "Now is the time for me to gallop across the bed, making a graceful leap over him", like he does at 4 o'clock in the morning. However, I never do.
He comes to the door whenever I come home, and though I pretend to myself he's welcoming me back; I suspect he is really looking to see if he can escape out onto the driveway. When he does make a mad dash out onto the driveway, he then lies down purring whereupon I pick him up and carry him back in.
I keep a chair next to my computer because he likes to sit next to me. Pretty much every day he sits on my computer mouse until I get up and let him sit in my chair. Then I pick him up and put him on his chair and he goes to sleep.
When he sees me carrying a coffee cup up the stairs, he runs ahead of me and jumps out at my ankles. Only when I'm carrying a coffee cup.
He has a dozen toys but much prefers to bring in leaves and gum nuts which he then puts in my shoes for safe keeping.
He won't eat raw meat so we buy a super expensive dry cat food for his teeth and gums. He hates tablets so we buy the super expensive worm and flea liquid treatment.
I send photos of him to my husband when he is at work. There one million photos of the cat sleeping on our iCloud.

We got him as a rescue kitten and I can't help feeling he's having a better life with us; rather than as a feral animal full of worms and fleas with no safe territory, or euthanised. We get the pleasure of living with him, he gets a good life - it seems like a perfectly ethical arrangement.
I wonder if vegans are being a bit too self-denying and overly rigorous?

Another day I want to talk about the vegan attitude to cheese.

OP posts:
wigglybeezer · 09/05/2019 22:16

I was thinking about this the other day, as a family were cutting back on meat for environmental reasons yet I have to feed the cats meat products three times a day, they eat far more meat than us! I love cats but won't be replacing them when they shuffle off this mortal coil.

FineWordsForAPorcupine · 09/05/2019 22:45

I have to say, I kind of agree with the idea that having pets is a bit of a grey area.

Yes, I know that all the posters on here have pets who live in the lap of luxury, couldn't be happier, frequently write their owners notes expressing their deep satisfaction with life, etc, but there is no getting round the fact that many pets don't live such amazing lives.

Maybe such long standing domestic animals like dogs and cats are content but I just can't convince myself that caged animals like rodents, rabbits, birds etc really like being with humans. I think they learn to tolerate humans but I've never met a hamster that exactly liked being a pet. You frustrate so many of their natural instincts and they lack the capacity to know they're better off than they would be in the wild - they don't know that they would otherwise risk sickness, predation or cold. They just have a tiny territory, no sex or offspring and no natural stimulation in the way of exploration, new smells, food sources, etc.

The solution would be, I guess, to look after the pets that already exist and stop breeding any more of them.

IAmNotAWitch · 09/05/2019 23:19

If there is one thing I am certain about. It is that it is not my cat who is the exploited party in our relationship.

She does whatever the fuck she wants and I make sure she is happy and has everything she needs. Sometimes, if I am very lucky, in return she will sit next to me.

PETA have no credibility.

bratzilla · 09/05/2019 23:51

I love my dogs but they take up a huge amount of time, limit what I can do and cost me 1/5 of my income. What am I gaining from exploiting them?

givemesteel · 09/05/2019 23:56

I have a family member who believes that having dogs and cats are irresponsible as they're bad fir the environment (ie additional livestock has to be kept and killed to produce pet food).

But ultimately a lot of animals are directly or indirectly now reliant on humans for food, foxes, mice, rats etc all eat human food, and humans probably keep a variety of insect populations high, eg ants which then feed birds, as well as birds being fed by humans with bird seed etc.

So pets aren't hugely different and I don't know why have less right to life than other animals.

QueenOfTheTofuTree · 10/05/2019 00:01

Tbf I don't think it's only vegans who hold this view.

I have had non vegans tell me it's immoral and wrong for me to keep small critters like guinea pigs and hamsters because it's cruel to keep them in cages. I'm vegan but I really don't agree with them on that.

QueenOfTheTofuTree · 10/05/2019 00:03

Also if you're rescuing pets such as dogs and cats you arent actually increasing any demand for meat because they would have existed regardless of whether you rescued them or not. Obviously buying them from a breeder is a different matter.

Gingerkittykat · 10/05/2019 00:15

I think the whole point is we own pets for our pleasure, and we do not have the right to breed animals for our enjoyment.

Also supporting meat production by pets eating meat.

Personally I love my kitties, and they have a great life.

I do hate seeing birds, rabbits and rodents in cages though.

UnrelentingFruitScoffer · 10/05/2019 00:21

PETA are a bunch of aggressive, silly theoreticians who think they are appointed to tell the rest of us how to live. They have no idea about the real world.

As with all relationships there are good relations with domesticated animals and bad ones. PETA simply ignore the good ones.

Hithere12 · 10/05/2019 07:42

They literally kidnapped a young girls Chihuahua and put it down, along with a bunch of other pets including cats they found in a park.

They are sociopaths

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/17/peta-sorry-for-taking-girls-dog-putting-it-down

www.nathanwinograd.com/maya-wasnt-the-only-animal-peta-killed-that-day/

BertrandRussell · 10/05/2019 09:16

Hmm- I think PETA have many loony ideas and supporters, but reading the article I am not convinced it was anything but a horrible mistake.

But I think that “no kill” is a potentially cruel and loony policy too. As I have been chastised for many times on here before.

Redpostbox · 10/05/2019 09:19

Slightly different but related, pets, especially cats and dogs do have a very high carbon footprint.
With the exception of assistance animals, we shouldn't be keeping pets due to the environmental damage they cause. They are a luxury the planet can not afford.

BertrandRussell · 10/05/2019 09:20

“They literally kidnapped a young girls Chihuahua and put it down, along with a bunch of other pets including cats they found in a park.”

Well, no they didn’t. They were collecting feral cats and stray dogs, and the chihuahua was unleashed and straying. No it shouldn’t have been put down. But it also shouldn’t have been straying.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/05/2019 09:25

Maya was put down later that day, a violation of a state law that requires a five-day grace period. Peta was fined $500 for the violation.

PETA have always considered themselves to be above the law. They have a higher calling, apparently!

nornironrock · 10/05/2019 09:30

Vegans don't think we should keep pets? So what?

They don't think I should eat meat either, and I couldn't care less what they think.

Just as they couldn't care less what I think. And why should they???

thisismeusernameything · 10/05/2019 09:43

well, no they didn’t. They were collecting feral cats and stray dogs, and the chihuahua was unleashed and straying. No it shouldn’t have been put down. But it also shouldn’t have been straying.

WTF? Can you actually read?? The PETA employee trespassed onto the property when it couldn’t be coaxed off and took the dog.

escapade1234 · 10/05/2019 09:46

I have held this view long before being vegan was a thing.

Pets may be fun and you may think you are giving them a great life but you are still taking ownership of the life of another sentient being.

You put your dog on a lead so it only goes where you allow it to go. You put your hamster in a cage when you’re finished being entertained by it. They’re your playthings.

Sosayi · 10/05/2019 09:49

A friend of mine is a banner waving protesting goes on marches vegan very very militant
She also has a cat and a rescue dog of six months which she no longer walks as she suffers from anxiety which she suffered from before she got her resume dog
However when I pointed out to her that her many tablets she takes are tested on animals she had an about turn and said that was fine as it helps her to function daily
I really have to avoid her at the moment as her preachy ways really fucking annoy me

Freudianslip1 · 10/05/2019 09:50

I'm not vegan and have pets but wouldn't ever keep an animal that is caged. Rodents, rabbits, birds are all off my list, with the exception maybe of rescuing ones that are already domesticated. There is a big market in pet shops for producing the above and I am inherently against that.

escapade1234 · 10/05/2019 09:52

You frustrate so many of their natural instincts and they lack the capacity to know they're better off than they would be in the wild - they don't know that they would otherwise risk sickness, predation or cold. They just have a tiny territory, no sex or offspring and no natural stimulation in the way of exploration, new smells, food sources, etc

I agree entirely. I won’t get my children a pet despite their longing for one because I would feel so cruel keeping a creature in a cage for my entertainment.

I know loads of people with dogs and cats but they NEVER get them from rescues, always from expensive breeders (usually with some crap about their child’s allergies) because they can afford it. In reality we know it’s because they want a certain breed in a certain colour. It’s a status accessory.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/05/2019 09:52

The PETA employee trespassed onto the property when it couldn’t be coaxed off and took the dog. No, they said they had been invited in by a park owner, so ostensibly they had permission to be there, to collect 'feral cats and wild dogs'

They then settled out of court, so nobody could verify that!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/05/2019 09:55

Vile people

www.nathanwinograd.com/maya-wasnt-the-only-animal-peta-killed-that-day/

I had stopped looking at PETA they infuriated me too much. Maybe I should go back to that!

Isitweekendyet · 10/05/2019 10:02

The different some ejits vegans don't understand about pets is that they have been pets for so long that they are completely domesticated.

Their immune systems have weakened, they've been bred in some instances giving them health needs, they have never been exposed to foraging/hunting, they have been looked after their whole lives so to release them into the wild would equal a death sentence.

Also ANIMALS EAT MEAT.

I say all the above as a vegan.

TildaKauskumholm · 10/05/2019 10:18

From what I know about veganism, perhaps they are right and humans should not have pets - we don't 'need' them (but what about guide dogs?), and there is no doubt that millions of other animals are slaughtered to make pet food. But... they would then over time cease to exist, just as farm animals would not exist if we were Al vegan. Farmers would not have fields of sheep and cows if not to sell as meat/milk/leather etc.

TildaKauskumholm · 10/05/2019 10:24

Interesting point from a PP re medication - pls answer if you are vegan - do you check any medication you may need to see if it has been tested on animals? If it had, would you still take it?