To have a 5th child

[Flowerflow]

I have 4 children ages 13, 9, 8 and 4 (5 in a few days), recently DP and I have been discussing have another child, he completely up for it but I'm still a little unsure. I have a few concerns like we currently live in a 4 bedroom house, oldest two share and youngest two have their own bedrooms. 8 year old is the only boy and if were to have another boy they would probably share but there would be a big age gap and DS wouldn't be impressed. That or we move to a bigger house which we might not be able to afford where we currently but would be able to if we move slightly further away. Another concern would be there'll be 5/6 between them and our current youngest so new baby might feel left out or the odd one out although not all our children are very close in age. I'm also unsure about going through pregnancy again, I've never really enjoyed it, baby, toddler stage and so I'll happily go through again but pregnancy I'm willing to go through not exactly happily though. On the other hand I'd love to have a fifth child and these concerns and problems can be worked through

If you regret having your child for environmental reasons, and given what you know now wouldn’t have, who exactly would you be saving the planet for?

We obviously need to prioritise those already here because well humanity but think it eminently sensible to deny life to those not born for the sake of those that already are. Don’t get the resistance to the message - it is your own existing kids that will suffer too.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis amazingly enough, although my own DS is my priority, I am not such a psycopath that I am incapable of not caring about anyone or anything else. What an extraordinary question for you to ask.

Anyway, a big part of feeling guilty for having a child is because of the effect of the world on that child - my beloved DS living in a deteriorating, frightening world, full of loss, and having a shorter lifespan than me - as well as the effect of having that child on the world.

I would be saving my children from absolutely shit lives. Course I could be wrong and I really hope I am. But I don't think so. I am not originally from the UK and i can already see horrific fall out from climate change in my country of origin: no water, rising temperatures, floods, extinction. It' s like a preview.

@MsTSwift

Yes but you're in a catch 22 when the population is increasing but not due to birth rates... however, the expanding elderly population need younger, working people to support them.
People used to retire and live for 10-15 years...now you retire and get 25-30 years.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis

For the other species on the planet (for starters) and also to spare my descendants from hostile environmental conditions caused by human activity.

@ArcheryAnnie I think you misunderstood my question. You are obviously saying you WOULD still have had your child and your concern is personal regarding your own genes/child going forward. I was really interested in people who would have changed their minds and not had children at all. I can see if you have one child you’d like him to have as much as possible and not have to share to the point of discomfort.

Also with regards to ageing population, advances in healthcare technologies, automation and migration can help plug gaps. Having more children is not the only answer.

Restructuring our economy is also another solution

New ways have to be found we can’t keep the population growing in some sort of Ponzi scheme. That’s why it’s so hard as our whole society is based in capitalist growth and it’s not sustainable. That’s why the politicians aren’t acting as no one knows what the hell to do

Increasing the retirement age is one option but I think they'd be rioting in the streets plus it would increase youth unemployment and jobs are becoming more scarce as automation takes off.

Personally I think Euthanasia will eventually be legalised.

Has op been back?

We just have to hope somebody’s 5th child is some sort of economic genius and leader who will sort it all out

I wouldn't blame the OP if she doesn't come back. All she was doing was musing about whether her own family would benefit or not from a fifth child. She wasn't asking whether it would cause the planet to explode.

Has op been back?

Going on how people have responded, turning an everyday family-size question into a guaranteed population apocalypse disaster situation, caused almost single-handedly by the OP.... would you?

Cross-post with AtseneGatnalp

If you regret having your child for environmental reasons, and given what you know now wouldn’t have, who exactly would you be saving the planet for?

Well, I’d like the planet to survive even though my genes will not.

Imagine being one of the children born on a planet with dwindling resources and on the verge of ecological and societal collapse caused by the actions of previous generations. And then hearing that the justification for bringing you into the world was so you could look after the old people that helped create the mess. I'd be fyoomin'

We have 4 we are very much finished. My body couldn’t cope with anymore.

You are obviously saying you WOULD still have had your child and your concern is personal regarding your own genes/child going forward.

Except I'm obviously not. I wouldn't have a child now, and I am somewhat ashamed I was not aware enough to hold off having a child then. It's this child, this DS I have now, this human being who is the light of my life, that I would not have had if I'd known, because I would not want to subject this person I love so dearly to so much future (near-future, even) loss and grief.

Well, I’d like the planet to survive even though my genes will not

The planet will survive in some form until engulfed by the sun, but until then some wildlife will die and some wildlife won't. In the changing conditions, those organisms best suited will win out, as they always have. The legacy of humans will continue to cause harm for a long time, though.

Sausageroll

I would like the planet to survive. I would like no more animals to become extinct, no more rain forests destroyed, no more animal habitat to be built on etc.

To be totally honest I am not sure I am bothered whether humans survive or not. We are the ones that have fucked everything up. We have destroyed habitat, we have made animals extinct. I am ashamed in all honesty to be human.

I think humans will eventually die out but it is doubtful whether that will be before we have totally destroyed this beautiful planet

whoa...only on mumsnet large families=>human apocalypse

Historically it's been wealthy and poor who had large families.
Now it's the queezed middle who are the most sensitive to external circumstances - and usually end up with 0,1,2,3.

USSR did extraordinary experiment - all the poor got brilliant education and medical care - unprecedented in human history. Soviet people stuck with only 0-2 children, and the age gaps were large. Then USSR collapsed and in 1990s the birth rate plummeted so hard that 2010s saw many universities shut down because places weren't filling out at all and nowadays in Russia mums of 3+ kids gets big government allowance. European birth rates are falling too despite social welfares and being relatively comfortable economically.

So it’s a sort of death cult? You want to voluntarily walk into extinction so that other nonhuman earth inhabitants can survive?

OP, you don't sound like you particularly want a 5th kid.

Make sure you really really want one. Otherwise you already have 4 kids who are getting more independent and you get closer to having more freedom again.

But yeah if you really really want a 5th kid, have one. But only you and your husband know if it's right for your family.