To think that these passengers should have criminal charges brought

[HuntIdeas]

After the tragedy of the Aeroflot flight where 41 people died, it sounds like other passengers stopping to get bags out of overhead lockers might have delayed the evacuation and caused some of the deaths!

AIBU to think that the passengers who deliberately took the time to stop and get bags out of overhead lockers, delaying evacuation of passengers behind while the aircraft was on fire, should have criminal charges brought? They directly caused some deaths!

Obviously, in reality it would be difficult to prove who caused what. However, just talking about bringing charges and making it a criminal offence to retrieve baggage in emergency situations would maybe stop other passengers from doing it next time

They didn't stop to get their bags with the intent on them dying. Its heart breaking beyond all comprehension.
However i wouldnt lay blame at anyones door. It was a tragic accident that couldn't have been prevented. There's no way even the most experienced pilot could have stopped the lightening from striking. This is why even thought of flying absolutely terrifies me. You're so vulnerable in the air.
I imagine theyre traumatised and will blame themselves enough without adding to things by bringing criminal charges.
Now obviously I speak as someone on the outside. I might feel very very different. If heaven forbid a relative of mine had perished on there.
RIP to all. Love thoughts and prayers to all their families, and indeed to survivors on board.

I wonder if they could make Automatic locks on the overhead lockers that switch on whenever the seatbelt sign is on. That would work in an emergency, and also stop all the idiots who stand up and start getting bags out the second the plane has landed normally but is still taxi-ing

Although in an emergency you’re not even supposed to carry small underseat bags off - they get in everyone’s way and slow people down when every second counts.

There was no way for them to know they only had 55 seconds to clear the plane. Until I read the article I’d never have assumed the time to evacuate would be so short. And there’s a tendency to trust in authority and safety procedures, to think we will be rescued and everything will be fine. Once the plane had landed they probably thought the worst was over. Also as a pp said, if you’re standing in the aisle and can’t move your natural reaction is to think “while I’m standing here I might as well grab my bag”.

I have a book The Unthinkable by Amanda Ripley, about reactions to disasters and how to survive them and the author says it is very common. She describes it as 'gathering' behaviour, and says that some of the people in the WTC on 9/11 did the same.

I thought I would be quite calm and collected in a life or death situation, then my son had a very serious accident and I was a fumbling mess, thank god my DP was there because my mind was gone. I think in that situation people don't actually expect anyone to die, the aren't thinking straight and just subconsciously think everything will be fine.

I know that, Hunt but that suggests something else, out of the ordinary, happened. It is an industry rule that a plane must be evacuated within 90+ seconds but it seems the specifics of this accident meant this one did not have that amount of time. Yes, passengers probably did cause delay, but that is not unusual either!

www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarcia/2019/05/07/after-fiery-aeroflot-crash-is-it-time-for-airlines-to-remove-overhead-bins/#4e7bd7192822

Having not been there I can’t comment on what happened, but I don’t think I’d be stopping to grab my bag if a fire was raging towards me and I can’t imagine most other people doing that either. What I can imagine is a range of different people having a range of stress responses and that coming out in different ways. I know for example DP reacts quite differently to me when panicked so I can understand how everyone behaves differently. You can’t really legislate for stress response unfortunately and some people will inevitably react in ways which seem daft or are unhelpful.

One of the passengers was very vocal after coming out of the plane that they had paid for their ticket and there were expecting to a refund for it AND to be able to take their stuff with them. Because they had paid.

The way I read it, it wasn’t a question of panicking or whatever. They would have been reminded by the crew to NOT take their stuff with them. And there is no way they could have thought it wasn’t serious (as it could be the case let’s say if you have a fire alarm in an hotel). They chose to ‘take their time’

The guy who decided to take his stuff was the last one to leave. Everyone behind him died.

So him to taking his stuff might not have saved everyone. But maybe one or two (or 5) people could have got out in the 30 seconds it took him to take his bag and move down the aisle.

Punch em and step over em. But really. Who actually stops to retrieve bags in a burning air plane. So selfish.

How do you know that Mad ?

I haven't found anything like that... yet!

My initial thought was same as yours, op. But then I thought back to when I was in a car accident.

My car ended up on its side, smashed up front grill.

But before I climbed out of the door which was now more of a sun roof, I scrabbled around to get the car key out. It was a mad autopilot moment, before I leave the car, I take the key.

So I can kinda get it, rational thought goes out the window.

And the Moscow Times has an interesting piece

Some passengers delayed the evacuation process by attempting to remove their carry-on luggage from the overhead compartments, preventing passengers near the tail end from escaping, a source with knowledge told Interfax. One survivor who had been sitting near the rear of the plane disputed this account, telling the Komsomolskaya Pravda tabloid that passengers in that section ran toward the nearest exit, which was near the fire

www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/05/06/what-we-know-about-the-deadly-aeroflot-superjet-crash-landing-a65495

I think if the overhead lockers had an automatic locking mechanism on them, people might then spend even more time trying - and failing - to wrestle them open.

Sorry, I messed that up

One survivor who had been sitting near the rear of the plane disputed this account, telling the Komsomolskaya Pravda tabloid that passengers in that section ran toward the nearest exit, which was near the fire

Nobody knows how they'll behave in an emergency, so casting judgement on other people's behaviour is really not very pleasant.

You know there are various international aerospace (sic?) laws, various rules that only apply in airports etc so adding one like "it is an offence to remove handluggage in an emergency" could be feasible (after years of international arguing no doubt) but I think the PP who talked about the book she'd read, about behaviour in crises and "gathering" is likely to take over.

I can't believe that people think its Ok to excuse it though; it does sound like those who stopped to get bags prevented others from leaving behind them. If we are accepting their behaviour as understandable under the circumstances then our abhorrence of it is equally valid.

I read that an extremely large passenger blocked one of the exits which reminded me of the recent thread on here about obese passengers.

I once watched a TV programme many years ago with an experiment which simulated a crash on an aeroplane (the people had volunteered) to see how they reacted.

Apparently there is research that shows people will react in different ways, some people politely queue in the aisle, others retrieve their bags, other jump over the top of seats (they have the best survival rates apparently). It stuck with me.

It's a horrendous tragedy and you can't predict how you will behave in such an traumatic situation. How many people do you see freeze when a car crash or happens or someone falls over or is assaulted.

Jesus wept!

Curious one newspaper article I read when the crash happened.
I’ll try and se if I can find it again.

• That was a response to the fat shaming post!

I'm not taking over but I do think it's important to listen to people who study how people react in disasters. It is clear that it is a well known phenomenon. Pretending that it isn't normal or common(which isn't the same as saying every single person does it would be foolish because it clearly is a very common reaction and there's numerous articles on it.

So forgive me from quoting on a book that deals with the topic but "The Gathering princess is common in life or death situations.Facing a void of unknown, we want to be prepared with as many supplies as possible, And as with normalcy bias, we find comfort in our usual habits. (In a survey of 1,444 survivors after the(9/11) attacks, 40% would say they gathered items before leaving.)

If you look at the pictures of passengers (survivors) walking away from the burning plane there are several that are towing wheelie cases behind them. They definitely would be too large to go under the seat, so would have had to been stored in an overhead locker. So some people did retrieve luggage from overhead.

It seems that one outcome from this crash could be that carry on luggage has to be small enough to be stowed under your seat, and overhead lockers are done away with. After all, if you recklessly stop to collect a bag stored under your seat, at least you are not blocking the aisle when you do it.

Terrible accident. Those poor people.

It’s happened before on a uk plane. A Jet2 aircraft had to evacuate due to smoke filling the cabin and idiots were stopping to take hand luggage keep your wallet, phone and passport in your pockets if they are that important!

Thanks Mad

I know we will get all the facts once the inquiry is over, but I find the immediate call for prosecution, laying of blame odd, distasteful. It would be handy to have all the 'accusations' on one place so everyone can see how much the contradict each other, maybe! Eye wothness statments are never as accurate as people think they are... as many Selective Attenetion tests show