AIBU for wondering why the government assumes 12 year olds don’t need childcare?

[HiddenPineapple]

Hi folks,
Looking at Tax Free Childcare and I see it stops when a child turns 12.
www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare
Can I ask what the heck working parents with 12 year olds are expected to do in the summer and why there is so little provision for that tricky bit where they’re pretty independent but you really don’t want them sitting around the house all day on their own?
DS is 12 and it looks like summer care will cost me £125 a week. Normally I’d apply accrued childcare vouchers, but the summer camps are not registered for childcare vouchers. The ones that are registered won’t take him because he’s 12.

happyhillock

Happy, I think it is very far from ideal leaving your dd alone all day to sit in bed and watch TV for three weeks. You leave her money to go out, but can she get around safely? Can she use public transport safely? Cross busy roads? Is she even allowed to swim by herself??? In our leisure centre children have to be supervised by an adult.

I would also not be happy with my dd making dinner for me by herself in the house, what if she forgets and gets distracted (as they all do)

I don't think a 12 year old is anywhere near ready to be left alone, all day day every day. Quite apart from the isolation and boredom, and feeling lonely. My dd who is now 14 is just about ready, she is switched on, can make dinners carefully and knows precisely how to deal with any kind of emergency. She has always been very grown up and mature, and even she was too young to leave. My youngest now 12 would be very unhappy being left all day. I don't think it is good for any child. Maybe if all the children lived together in a road or street, and there were parents around all day at a push, but that was thirty years ago.

Oh come on, so when someone is planning a baby they should also take into account the childcare that may or may not be needed in 12 years time and whether they can afford it .

well, I wonder why the government thinks that the most vulnerable children, i.e. those with complex needs don't need childcare either. Nothing available.

I think the summer holidays are too bloody long and often there isn't a good solution for this age group. Even when my parents had time off work by secondary age I didn't want to be taken on day trips with them. I just remember the summer holidays being boring as fuck at that age.

I agree as a society we need to decide whether we actually want both parents to work or not because I think families get mixed messages.

How is that ridiculous?!
If someone is planning a child they should take into account financial obligations for the next 18 years.

This case doesn't seem to be about finances but lack of practical options

Morley19 my circumstances have changed considerably since becoming pregnant.

I also don't think most of us realise in advance the hell that is attempting to marry up 13 weeks of school holidays with annual leave from work. The school day not being on the same page as the work day is bad enough! (and of course whenever anyone expresses frustration with this, all the 'school isn't childcare' brigade come trooping out, which hardly helps)

This is why I'm working a min wage job, it's the only thing I could find with 2 kids, no childcare and not enough income to cover paid childcare.
It sucks but it's life. Leaving a 12 Yr old alone ten hours a day is awful.

I agree with a pp, you either fork out financially or you change jobs, it's that simple. There is no magic solution somewhere. Most people I know either swap days with friends, which annoys everyone or takes unpaid leave, which annoys work. Ho hum!!!

I'm with you OP.
I have always been on the more lax end of leaving my kids for an hour or two, but I think over the summer holidays, to leave a 12 year old for 5 full days every week is not a great idea. Apart from boredom, long periods of being unattended and alone at this age can lead to depression and also the potential to get into loads of trouble!

Instead of looking at kids club, I wonder if there are some other things available, eg there is a football 'camp' at the local town football club, 9-5 for a week here. There are various courses and activities on locally, which you could sign him up for, and he can probably volunteer at the local library one day a week if they will let him, my dd aged 11 does, but it is quite informal.
If he had an activity or task each day, then you are structuring it. He could even do some shopping for you!
At 12, learning to get round on the bus is a great thing to do.

To me, a lot depends on your work, how far away you are and how much you are able to be in contact with him, eg he goes swimming (and at most local leisure centres round here as long as they can swim they can come unaccompanied at age 8) texts you to say he has arrived and texts you to say when he is leaving for home. He can meet a friend (with or without parent) at the swimming pool, and they can swim and hang out for a bit in the cafe.

Haven't 'we' already paid for it if OP would use her existing stash of purchased vouchers?

I was a latch key kid from the age of 11, I spent quite a bit of time on my own in the holidays (didn't have many mates) which was boring as shit, but didn't kill me.

I guess it is a luxury rather than a necessity and the state therefore don't think they should contribute.

lots of parents hate their DC's friends coming round to theirs so DD might hang with a pal for a couple of hours at the park (though the parks are all geared up for younger kids, of course) and then back home alone for another 5 hours. Day after day after day.

WeepingWino Sure, but this family has money to spend on childcare, so they have money to give the kids, even if they need to sub their friends the bus fare, or swimming pool entrance or whatever to get them out of the house. The kids don't need supervision, if a parent doesn't like them at the house, tell 'em to bugger off out - there's an empty house even in this situation for them to be in without getting under any parents noses.

The nothing but hanging out in the park is for those without money, not for those with the 25 quid a day minimum that a camp is going to cost.

There will be a few who live remote enough, or the families short enough of money that there's nothing for the kids to do and no friends around, but those families aren't the ones who would be helped by childcare vouchers.

Children need to be usefully occupied during the holidays. At 12, if they have been properly parented, they should be able to take public transport to and from an organised activity (sport/music/drama/art etc) or to a sports club/pool/museum/library. You can also get them to help with shopping/cooking/cleaning/laundry.

I think the title here is misleading as it soon becomes clear this is about provider availability. As the vouchers can still be used for a 12 year old, it seems the government aren't of the view that they don't require childcare?

There are a lot of threads on here about lack of availability though, there do seem to be places where just nothing or not enough exists. Which makes the posts saying you should've thought about and researched this before you had kids all the dafter really. To know what's on offer in the area you live 13 years before you TTC would be a crystal ball job. Anyone whose name isnt Mystic Meg will struggle.

Maybe the difference is after 12 rather than childcare it is entertainment? As you say they are relatively independent but it isn't very enriching being left alone foe the whole holidays.

Trying to think of a justification but obviously it's because the Tories are shitheads.

You are so right the government and tax payers should 100% pay all your childcare until they are 16, after all it was the government and tax payers that said you must bred at once.

I would get together with 2 other friends parents and plan to cover a week or so each so you look after 3 for a week and get reciprocal care from the other 2. Then you only have to cover 3 weeks - you and dh take 2 weeks each and overlap one week for a family holiday

That is precisely what OP said, of course.

At 12, if they have been properly parented, they should be able to take public transport to and from an organised activity (sport/music/drama/art etc) or to a sports club/pool/museum/library

That's assuming those things are available. My 12 year old can get on a bus fine, she takes one to school every day. But the bus service stops over the summer months so even if there were museums or sports clubs to go to (which there aren't where I live) there is no bus to go on.

Can you transfer the vouchers over to term time care for your youngest to offset? Or pay all of his placement in vouchers?
I wouldn’t want to leave my 14 & 12 yo all day for 6 weeks, they are quite self sufficient but it’s a long time to be left to their own devices all day, especially if transport near you is like it is near us ie sparse and expensive.

At 12, if they have been properly parented, they should be able to take public transport to and from an organised activity (sport/music/drama/art etc) or to a sports club/pool/museum/library

Depends massively on the area, availability of public transport, and the individual 12yo.

Because the summer activities for teens are luxury activities not essential childcare. Mine stayed at home or went to the library, local museum etc at 12 onwards, and we would flex our hours so one started early the other late to reduce overall number of hours alone. Outer city parks has a number of programmes for teens too - free but they are put to work, and there's a (free to parents) archeological dig for two weeks run by local university currently being advertised for 12-16 year olds. Council childcare ( £10 per day but only 10-3) runs til age 14 older kids allowed to walk home after

@Springwalk, are you really serious, what 12 year old doesn't like to lye in bed on school holiday's? She wasn't lonely or bored she seen friend's most afternoon's, i assume she was able to use public transport since she had to use it twice a day for school, i think a parent has a problem if there child can't cross a road by the time they go to secondary school, also we taught her to swim by the age of 7, do you really think she need's adult supervision to go swimming at 12? I was allowed to go swimming at that age with friend's, i never said she was making dinner she was getting thing's prepared like peeling potatoes, veg etc, if there was an emergency she had a mobile phone to contact me at anytime, you know she had house rules like keeping the door locked all the time, not to use the cooker, have a sandwich or heat something up in the microwave, no friend's in house unless me or her dad are in, there's nothing wrong with a 12 year old having a bit of responsibility, she's a mature girl for her age, likes school and has many friend's, and never been in any trouble, not bad for a child bordering on neglect!!!!!

And realistically most of these 12yos left to their own devices for 10-hour days aren't filling their time with museums and cultural activities, much as we might like to think so. Nothing wrong with the occasional day spent in bed watching TV but not for weeks on end.