AIBU for wondering why the government assumes 12 year olds don’t need childcare?

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Hi folks,
Looking at Tax Free Childcare and I see it stops when a child turns 12.
www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare
Can I ask what the heck working parents with 12 year olds are expected to do in the summer and why there is so little provision for that tricky bit where they’re pretty independent but you really don’t want them sitting around the house all day on their own?
DS is 12 and it looks like summer care will cost me £125 a week. Normally I’d apply accrued childcare vouchers, but the summer camps are not registered for childcare vouchers. The ones that are registered won’t take him because he’s 12.

I don't really think this is the responsibility of the government either tbh. Especially considering the state of austerity in 2019 where schools are unable to accept SN children, hospitals are underfunded to the point of collapse etc.

When I was 12 both parents worked full time in the holidays. Of course it's not ideal, and of course they would have liked to spend time with me and give me some company, but it would have meant no food on the table.

I would have some chores to do, read a lot of books, went to the library, cycled to aunties house 2m away if I needed anything, occasionally saw friends. I had their work numbers in case of emergency.

very few of the families round my way have 2 full time working parents. In fact none of the families I know and who DD is friends with have this set up. Which would make DD being round at theirs a lot a very one-way street. And I would worry that as DD would be the one to always have an empty house at her disposal that she'd be under pressure to always have a load of kids at hers.

I'm finding that 2 full time parents + only child is pretty tricky.

You are looking for entertainment for your child not childcare. That’s why it’s not subsidised.

church but you had an auntie nearby and whilst DD would have our numbers, neither of us work locally (London).

If the government want more parents to work then they need to look at subsidised schemes to run for a lot longer than just primary.

I like my own compony and read masses but I think being completely alone all day for long periods and weeks on end would actually be pretty depressing.

Guess how much help there is for childcare in Ireland for the majority of working families:

Zero.

Whether its holidays or term time.

I agree OP. I don't think 12 is old enough to be left alone all day every day. He would be on his computer the entire time. However he is also too old for any of the clubs around here. Or at least he feels he is. So actually tax free wouldn't be any use to me anyway as he won't go.

I'm very lucky in my job in that they are really flexible, so I try to take half days so he's only alone for 5 or 6 hours. (gone from 8am back at 1.30pm) Unfortunately I still need childcare for my youngest, so I spend more on him, because it costs more to put him in childcare for half a day than a full day (not literally more, but it works out more expensive to put him in two half days than it does one full day)

My daughter turns 12 during the summer holidays. I do have Avery flexible job & can work at home whenever I want, but there are times I’ll go in the office. On those days, she’ll go back to her old childminder.

I know she doesn’t want to, but it would at the most for 3 days a week, as that’s all the CM works in the hols anyway.

she’s rarely left alone now, I’m home when she gets home from school. She maybe has an hour on her own twice a week. Although her friends live quite close, they’ll be on holiday/grandparents/etc. No one in my circle of friends will be leaving even their 14year olds alone all day.

I also have an 8 year old, & I wouldn’t dream of leaving the older one in charge of her. That is far too much responsibility at such a young age.so CM it is.

I grew up in the 80s, & yes I was left along. All 3 of us were left (with a long list of chores 🙄), but my mum had no choice. I do.

Issabellrogino there are private schools in NI

Not in the sense that most people in the UK would understand them. There are 14, and 10 of them are very strict Christian schools, where the entire curriculum is Bible based. Some of them have one room and a handful of pupils. You're not going to find summer camps there. The others are mostly SEN schools, although there is one school, Rockport, which might fit the description of private school that most people would recognise.

I was always just floating about the house at this age and younger when it was holidays from school but parents worked. It was boring as hell. I wasn't a sociable or confident child so wouldn't have been proactive with friends. I spent a lot of time eating and became very overweight!

I would speak to his friends parents and see what they're doing and ask your son what he might do. Is there a project he could be working on? Making something or reading up on something? Does he get up early and want to be doing something all the time or is he a more chilled out watch tv kind of person? Could he volunteer to walk neighbours dogs or do an elderly neighbours shopping?

I use childcare vouchers, they go up to a higher age.
No solution though if your clubs dont take vouchers.

Why would a 12 year old need childcare, of course help stops here. There is no provision because they don't need it.

Why can’t you and his Dad take more annual leave, and at different times, over the summer?

^but if you took more annual Leave in the summer you'd have less for the other holidays. It moves the problem to a different time rather than solves it!

@Springwalk it's not bordering on neglect leaving a 12 year old at home, for the 3 week's my 12 year old daughter was left alone, she spent most of the morning in bed, had breakfast watched tv, i would leave her money if she was going into town or swimming with friend's, if i was at home she'd still spend the morning in bed and disappear with friend's in the afternoon, she was a very mature 12 year old, never once did she complain that we we're out working, she was alway's home when i got in sometimes she would get thing's prepared for tea she was never asked to, she never felt neglected, being alone for 3 week's in a year is not a catastrophe, there are a hell of a lot of real neglected children out there mine wasn't one of them

Do you have anything like Baracudas or Camp Beaumont - full day activity camps go up to age 14. Not sure if they are country wide, are in both Herts and Essex.

but if you took more annual Leave in the summer you'd have less for the other holidays. It moves the problem to a different time rather than solves it!

No it doesn’t because the other holidays are much shorter. A week of hanging around the house isn’t a big deal.

If it’s an issue leaving your 12yo home a lot, spread your holiday leave about, don’t take it together and it goes a long way.

£125 pw for childcare in the holidays is cheap. If the OP thinks it’s necessary, it’s available. It doesn’t need to be subsidised by everyone else. There’s has to be a cut off and 12 is reasonable.

I was just thinking how awesome it must be to have summer camps like in America and fell into a Google rabbit hole. I had know idea those camps were so expensive shock. They seem so ubiquitous as well (knowledge based solely on movies) they're clearly not accessible to everyone.

They also are still mostly for younger ages, by 13-14 you'll likely be going as a young leader / worker, not as a participant.

If you're not fussy and want to risk short notice, there's often lots of cheap PGL type courses around as they fill in cancellations.

What's more shocking to me in the thread is the number of 12 year olds who seem to live so remote from their any friends that they cannot hang out with them during the holidays, even if it is just in the park, the isolation is certainly sad.

Does he do any extra curricular clubs that offer summer events, like scouts etc

sirfred for me it wouldn't necessarily be isolation, but as we all know from MN, lots of parents hate their DC's friends coming round to theirs so DD might hang with a pal for a couple of hours at the park (though the parks are all geared up for younger kids, of course) and then back home alone for another 5 hours. Day after day after day.

I would hate to think that DD's friends' parents dreaded her appearance yet again. There was recently a thread where the OP initially started off seemingly disliking the kids of working parents being round her house in the holidays, and then moved on to only children always wanting to play with her kids. She got a lot of support on that thread, and yet here we have this thread suggesting that being round your mates' houses all the time is what we should be aiming for.

I used to stay home all day every day for every school holiday from about the age of 10. It was amazing. I loved it! I would read, go for walks, go visit a friend for the day (you can surely drop him off on your way to work and pick him up after), watch a bit of tv, make lunch, did some volunteering. It was truly great. On occasion, my mum might sign me up for an activity doing something for the week, but it was rare. I don't think it's the governments job to keep your kids from being bored, and most of said activities are private, profit earning ventures. They would offer more of them if parents actually used them. Most people aren't paying for childcare for their kids 12+. Just let him enjoy his summer, do some activities at home he enjoys, go get some books at the library, plan a few days out when you can take time off, encourage him to plan things to do with friends that you can facilitate.

Pgl take childcare vouchers and have decent offers if you sign up for emails. I sent dd and her friend age 13 at Easter on a bogof offer.
Agree it’s hard age. I work part time and locally and would struggle if not as dh works away mom to Friday. She is fine for 4.5 hours 3 days a week but 12 hours a day 5 days a week is totally different. I’d be out that if I worked full time in nearby city with a commute by train.

There has to be a limit somewhere. If not 12 then when? 14? 16? 18? Of course there will be 12 year olds who aren't as ready as their peers, but that's true at any age. Ultimately any policy that involves children is going to be based on the average child of that age, and the average 12 year old IMHO is not going to want to go to one of these clubs or benefit from it.

However, in an ideal world there would be something targeted at that age. A drop in type thing? Or summer sports? So that they don't get bored or lonely either, IYSWIM

I reckon it depends a lot on where you live as well, in our previous terrible, run down area there was fuck all to do- a very small, unfriendly library and a crappy park. In fact, most of the older children probably spent their time vandalising the aforementioned park. A lot of the kids spent their days roaming the streets and it made it clear we had to move- very, very racist comments and highly sexualised coming from primary aged kids .

More to do where we are now, but it would end up costing a fortune to do even one activity everyday so some kids would definitely be limited to what they can do.

I don't think it is the responsibility of the government and all the tax payers to continue to pay for your childcare.

Why can't you pay for your own childcare when needed?

If you are unable to afford this why wasn't this taken into account in your decisions about having children and what you could afford?

Surely it's not the government tho if the holiday camp providers aren't taking the vouchers? I'm sure they are physically able to if they register but there prob isn't as much demand?