AIBU for wondering why the government assumes 12 year olds don’t need childcare?

[HiddenPineapple]

Hi folks,
Looking at Tax Free Childcare and I see it stops when a child turns 12.
www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare
Can I ask what the heck working parents with 12 year olds are expected to do in the summer and why there is so little provision for that tricky bit where they’re pretty independent but you really don’t want them sitting around the house all day on their own?
DS is 12 and it looks like summer care will cost me £125 a week. Normally I’d apply accrued childcare vouchers, but the summer camps are not registered for childcare vouchers. The ones that are registered won’t take him because he’s 12.

AIBU to wonder why many people think it is the governments job to provide for parents' life choices, and other people's job to pay for it

Providing decent tax deductible childcare allows people to work, which enables them to pay taxes which pay for much-needed services. If someone doesn't have affordable childcare they can't work. That is why other countries have such good-value childcare, but we are less enlightened in this country. That said, we also have better ratios, but that's more relevant for the younger age groups.

Mine are now grown. Of course, they need proper adult supervision when they’re little, but I found they needed actual me more from aged 11 onwards than when they were small. Then, as long as the person was caring and competent, they were fine. Older, they were trickier. Working and having children is so hard. But despite my weird working hours, mine have turned out ok! Good luck with it.

Agreed..... mine is 13 and don't feel comfortable leaving him for endless hours for weeks. A few hours here and there is ok but full time is not a solution.

Bennyandthejetsssss That's the thing you have to get on with it. Does it make it you a bad mum of course not. Some people live in this bubble of security where they have a choice but for others they don't.

Why is it like benefit scrounging? The op is not accessing a benefit. The op is paying for childcare and using a scheme which effectively makes her childcare costs tax free. Is it benefit scrounging to contribute to your private pension weegie?

Well the camps down my end take till 14 and then they can go as a helper.... but I work for an independent and have never been able to get childcare vouchers so it cost me a fortune and I’m just out of pocket.... same with the after school club fees 150-200 a month that I pay bloody tax on

@wengie, it’s a tax deduction.
Not a benefit.
It helps people to work.
It helps people who supply childcare to work.
Everyone is working.
No one is scrounging.

I know exactly what you mean OP. My youngest is 10 so I wouldn’t leave him yet. There are no holiday clubs where I live at all. No buses or public transport. His friends all seem to go to their Grandparents houses at the moment. I keep thinking of increasing working hours when he’s a bit older, but I’m worried about the summer holiday.
Being indoors alone for a full day 5 days a week really isn’t much fun. The odd day isn’t so bad.

More of a reason to make sure your child is looked after if you don’t live in a bubble of security wouldn’t you say? wengie
but wait, you are a SAHM and never works so why post that?

Surely most kids this age don’t even wake until mid/late morning?

Diff for me as I have twins so they had company and they got on very well, but they were left on their own for a few days from year 7 whilst DH and I worked. We took leave where we could, they went to friends and had friends back to ours, but only if they ran it past us. No random visitors. You just have to muddle through and hope for the best, the vast majority of kids are fine

Also a week away with brownies/guides etc helped

Can he cycle anywhere to get to places that he wants to go to?

Mine was left alone from when he started high school. He’s 16 now, won’t be long and he will prob refuse to even come on our 2 week annual holiday. He either hangs around at home or goes out with friends. The holidays get much more expensive as they get older as they always asking for money to go out to different places with friends. We live in Greater London so lots of places to go but expensive! God knows how we will afford it when he starts Uni!

Also @springwalk seems to be presenting a very binary view of parenting in terms of what children are allowed to do (or not) in the holidays. Parenting is a continuum - not a binary set of choices. There is a happy medium between allowing them to roam the streets freely and keeping them cossetted indoors on their phones all day (ironically roaming the streets freely might even be safer, compared to the dark playground of the internet!). Having lived out of the UK for 11 years I must say that the highly binary and overly paranoid attitudes expressed at certain moments in this thread are uniquely Anglo-Saxon! French kids are taking the Paris metro alone at 9/10 years old; Dutch kids are riding their bikes to school alone from a similar age. Both are generally given a lot more independence day-to-day in terms of playing out with friends etc. I can quite assure you they are not maladjusted as a result.

@Angelil Thu 09-May-19 19:22:11
French kids are taking the Paris metro alone at 9/10 years old; Dutch kids are riding their bikes to school alone from a similar age. Both are generally given a lot more independence day-to-day in terms of playing out with friends etc. I can quite assure you they are not maladjusted as a result.

My kids are well-adjusted, have been popping into town by bus to meet friends since Year 6, hanging around with friends, walk or bus to and from school themselves and are pretty independent. I still think it's not a good idea to leave a 12 year old alone day after day for 10 or so hours each day if it can possibly be avoided. And I'm not personally keen on my kids popping into town or mooching around with friends when we're at work. When they do either of these activities, I like one of us to be around in case of emergency or even just uncertainty.

Mine stopped going to child care in the holidays at about 10.

I think it's an important part of growing up and developing independence. I'm pretty sure a reason many teenagers these days have no resilience is because they've been wrapped in bubble wrap and not given the freedom to make mistakes.

angelil French children are NOT left for up to ten hours a day, every day over the summer alone by themselves. I know this for a fact having lived there for years.

British children also independently use the transport systems, my younger dd cycles to school as well, so what? It is not exactly breaking news.

You seem to have missed the part about children spending extended periods of time alone all day at twelve years old. It is not a general reflection of their independence.

Although you seem to imply that British children are somehow lacking (such a boring stereotype I must say) I sure as hell would not want to be growing up in Paris (or any other part of France) at the moment. It is hardly the epitome of calm and order is it! It seems Parisian children would need much more supervision and protection not less, given they have to navigate what looks to be a war zone most weeks.

How about a childminder or an au pair?

Parenting isnt black and white.Parents know their children best.Some children dont like being left alone others quite happy to occupy themselves and are very independent.There is a general gap in childcare at this age.They dont need constant supervision and need somewhere they can be independent if they wish and are safe to do so but also an adult to turn to should they need it.Some childminders can offer this and can accept vouchers too.Maybe a nanny sh a re with another family could work.As for children in other countries it very much depends on the parents parenting style.Children dont thrive with helicopter parenting and independence can be encouraged gently

@Springwalk i can assure you there was a lot of mental health problem's in the 70/80's my sister suffered from it from the age of 18, she committed suicide at the age of 39 ( her 3rd attempt) she was no more looked after than they are today, my brother had a school friend who committed suicide at 15, my sister was hospitalised quite a lot for her own safety in a place that was only for the mentally ill, i couldnt believe how many young teenager's were in there, the difference is you didn't hear a lot about it then as mental illness was frowned apon,

Happy So why leave a child in a situation where depression is almost guaranteed? Long periods of time alone can cause loneliness, and loneliness can very quickly result in depression particularly in the young.

I'm with you OP. There is an awkward period when they are a little too old for camps and too young to be on their own all day every day. The difference with our childhood is that kids played out and had other kids to play with, plus most mums were home so there was someone nearby if needed. Neither of those apply now and no one wants their 12 year old sitting around the house all day five days a week for 6 weeks in a row. That's a recipe for 50 hours of Fortnite a week all summer. It's a tough one.

@BigSandyBalls no way I'd allow my 11 and 13 olds to have visitors without me at home. Kids together inspire each other to get into trouble and I couldn't never be sure if the visitor would follow the house rules. They don't have the same sense of danger as adults and act very stupidly sometimes specially if they are in groups. I will leave my two allone for a few hours but with strict instructions regarding safety and what to do in an emergency. I think bringing another child on the mix would be a recipe for disaster.

Are you a lone parent? Staggering your holiday entitlement within the sumner break could help. Say a week off on holiday, a week on his own, a week holiday, a week on his own etc. Or as I did took annual leave, then DH took his. Didn't have a joint holiday but the kids had a very long holiday. For the couple of weeks left I approached local college to find a student doing childcare to "employ " for those weeks. Found really capable and trustworthy 17/18 year olds and they were grateful for the cash. Cheap at the price care for 3 children.

@Springwalk i don't think a lot of mental health problem's is due to lonliness, certainly not in my sister's case she was very bright in those day's all the clever pupil's went to the same school, she had a goid job and plenty of friend's her illness didn't start until she was 18, i think the problem's nowaday's is there is to much pressure on teenager's, there supposed to look almost perfect, politicians keep changing the education curriculum, my god they want to start testing 5 year old's, parent's expect them to get into the so called best school's, go to university, of course it's a lot of pressure to put on teenager's and i hate to say it but parent's cause a lot of that pressure, there's a lot of snobbery nowaday's on which svhool you go to, in my day we were told you can only do your best.