to think that it's appalling that society has come to this

[floraloctopus]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-48119099

The school is described as the 4th emergency service (yes, I know that's the coastguard/lifeboats) as they are providing a food bank service, helping get rid of head lice, running training courses on cooking on a budget, meanwhile they are having to make staff redundant because of budgets.

It shouldn't be like this, children and families are suffering whilst the rich get richer thanks to the government policies which take from the poor and give to the rich.

I basically stopped reading this when snuffalo advocated 100% inheritance tax.

In doing that you take away the ability of people to work to the betterment of their children. We are working hard to make sure we have something to pass on to our kids to make their lives better. If we have that taken away what is the point of working hard?

No, that is the politics of envy. What you are saying is that you want to take away everything that people have worked for over the centuries. And how would the state be able to afford the upkeep on all the houses they would remove from families when the occupants die? They may well take time to sell.

What you are saying is you want to steal all the big manor houses that families have lived in for centuries, you want to take away all the jewellery that has been in the family for generations. AND on top of that you want to tax gifts given within the lifetime of people.

No, it is not a good idea. Apart from anything else, if you bring that in you will instantly have a LOT of houses on the market with people simply deciding to spend their money rather than have the government steal everything they have worked for.

The answer is simple: stop voting Tory... they are ideologically opposed to spending money on ordinary people...their rich mates, yes..... you, no...

I repeat: stop voting these awful, cruel people in charge of your money.

Any generic comment really.

If people voted for a party that would sort this out, is the way to resolve this.

By all means, tax the rich but you would find that they would up sticks and live outside the U.K.

The tax burden would then fall on the not so rich

Throwing money at a problem is not the magic bullet, the actual root cause needs to be addressed first

The question is really, are people happy to pay more tax?

I think the point is the UK is not rich anymore, the country is actually broke and not putting the tax rates to 60% and increasing corporation tax is to keep needed professionals and small to medium local businesses and large multinationals here that are providing employment. It will cost the government a lot more I imagine to fly in professionals to do the work and with no industry if there are no Entrepeneurs we’re stuffed basically and the country will spiral economically to even greater depths. Isn’t the Tory idea to make the country head in the direction of becoming self sufficient and not descend further into debt created by borrowing billions to fund all the wonderful labour promises? It can be likened to a battle between the accountant and the creative. Everybody is right but when there’s no money in the pot what do you do? If you over tax you loose your cash cow. Still, cutting supports for the needy is austerity in the wrong place. Perhaps it’s because of all the media and moaning of people claiming child benefit having many kids to live off or those working or duping the system incredibly well. Though they seem to forget there are a lot of genuinely needy people excluded from help because they are treated like con artists or are too ill to jump through all the hoops and their claims are chucked out. It is an appalling system.

What sort of rent is wiping out so much of £1600? Why not blame the landlords. A drop in rent would be the difference between struggling and coping just fine.

Fossie: do you really think its that simple?.

I'm one of those Victorian scrooge like characters top hat big cigar etc! If you refered to my post the other day I said that the private housing sector isn't the right one for providing low cost affordable (relativley) that is homes.

The cost of the house is the major factor in setting the rent. Lets take an example. A house is bought for say £350,000 in the south east, three bed property. Rough priceing on the moneysaving expert mortgage
calc site here.

That on an intrest only payment is £1100.00 per month, repayment over 25 years thats £1800 odd

Now in the first example theres nothing to repay the loan so the landlord has to hope that the value of the property will go up over time but even so he/she will have to insure it around 300 - 400 a year allow for furnishing and maintenace repairs the tax relif situation is now not good so whats the likely rent to be?.

Around our way that sort of property would rent from 1200 to 1400 per month. That for most all people is a lot of money out of their monthy pay.

So who is wrong here the Landlord I HATE that term lets call them the renter or owner?.

No point penalising the rich. They will just leave the UK. They aren't the target as will be taking little out and putting lots in.

We need to build personal responsibility and to ensure people aren't making choices they can't afford. A bare bones safety net yes but we could have so much more money for schools, health care etc if we stopped paying benefits for people's choices.

Throwing money at the problem doesn't help, you only have to look at tax credits for that. So many quit work, went part time, had more children etc based on what they could claim.

Tío think there would be fewer people on benefits and more spending to boost the economy if there was no inheritance tax. People would feel it a worthwhile endeavour to work, save and buy. As it stands many hard working folk feel if they (government /taxman)don’t get it from you spending your life slogging at a job they take the rest when you’re dead and can’t leave anything for your kids so you might as well live in a council property. This over taxation actually demotivates people from feeling it’s worthwhile to work hard and have something to call your own and hence for those who may have a choice to work towards at some point in the future it might make the hardships of the welfare system appear more tolerable and not necessarily worth getting out of.

I not tío...duh

Justaboy my comments about reducing the rent was to highlight that reducing outgoings is just as effective for a struggling family as giving more in benefits. My additional point would be that houses cost too much to buy. A colleague can’t earn enough yet to move from a 2 bed flat to a 3 bed to increase his family. Sad but responsible planning on his part. The cost of accommodation is where I would target help. Story after story involves ‘not money after rent/mortgage has been paid‘. A London story recently was of a well paid woman going to a food bank as all her income was rent. We need more creative solutions.

It sounds like a great, caring school. I also think the country has been through times of less extreme income equality. Central government has cut funding for local services to the bone, which naturally affects the poorest. We seem to have slipped back to Victorian views of deserving/undeserving poor. I am not sure how much further along this road people are willing to go.

Inter generational trauma is not about "poor choices" or lack of "personal responsibility".

But it is what's behind the issues being discussed on this thread. That is what we need to tackle, and self-righteous judgement and blame won't do that.

Fossie: We need more creative solutions.

Spot on but they don't happen whatever shade of goverment we get in do they?

Lets see what could be done. In most areeas the country isnt that much covered in concrete I get the oppertunity to see the UK from a light aircraft from time to time its not as bad as might be thought.

Now the cost componets of the house are the Land its built on and the material and labour cost.

Now the major cost is the land its built on around here farm land is quite cheap but once it has planning permission for housing then tack as many noughts on that as you might want to if your selling the land and cos its an arm ands three legs the end result is an Excutive det residence.

Now lets change the planning laws, with a condition that the land price be cheaper for that housing type! land can be allocated for social housebuilding more housing society, lets not get the council involved they tend to cock things up most times so now we can have our cheaper housing for the working man and his wife/partner and their 2 or 3 children in a decent place built well to modern insulation standards maybe solar colletors for heating on the roof what's not to like??

So why dosent this happen? anyone?

I saw something about housing in another country that is small, and cheap, but built as community housing where there is a communal evening meal, gardens, play area and chickens. Residents were all sorts - singles, the elderly and single parents. It worked for them and they seemed pretty happy living as a loose community. I don’t know if it would be popular in the uk!

If the singles wanted to date where would they get privacy?
Would child free by choice ppl get a bit pissed off at running around after other peoples kids?

Would it just be for poorer people. Would they be co erced into it.

Manicmij

Scotland has the same issues and you will have great difficulty finding a Tory voter there.”

Isn’t Ruth Davidson quite popular in Scotland? That’s the impression the media gives, anyway.

This is not a poverty ridden nation, the wealth is being funneled in one direction.

''Britain's divided decade: the rich are 64% richer than before the recession, while the poor are 57% poorer''.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britains-divided-decade-the-rich-are-64-richer-than-before-the-recession-while-the-poor-are-57-10097038.html

YANBU... what a wonderful school though. I work in the community & I’m appalled by people’s living circumstances... Stagnant wages & increasing cost of living. Working people having to attend food banks... colder houses (fuel poverty, choosing to heat or eat). Of course people are more unhealthy. Average life span has decreased under this Govt. Theyre despicable.

Helenadove - it’s called cohousing. Just one suggestion that might work.

I am not getting in to a political debate as all parties have some good policy and some bad. Of course it is terrible when people have to suffer and can’t eat, but more needs to be done to educate and money manage.

I grew up in a single parent house hold, in a council house with a mother who didn’t have a job and claimed benefits. We never struggled for money as my Mum was an excellent money manager. We had a land line telephone, ran a car, I did ballet, I didn’t especially want for anything or ever go hungry and I had normal Christmas and birthday presents (nothing extravagant). In our row of council houses (6) no one else was in the same position. One family had 11 children, never had enough food, used to steal etc... but had phones, jewellery, smoked cannabis etc. The other families also had periods of no money, none of them had a car, used to run out of electric and walk to garage to top up counting or little scraps of money, would wait until benefits day to do shopping etc... yet they smoked and when pay day came would spend money on stuff they didn’t need.

I know every example is not the same and some people do need help. But in that article it says they got £1600 a month. Well the children would get free school meals, they would get baby milk vouchers is under 3, rent is paid for, council tax benefit so don’t pay that. That leaves roughly £400 per week for bills, food and extras. I hate to sound terrible but a bowl of porridge costs something like 7p, a banana is 20p. A ton of beans costs 35p so half a tin with a piece of toast for a meal is such a small cost. Even an evening meal can be done cheaply. I know it’s not ideal but 2 frozen pizzas for a £1 each would feed 4. A bowl of pasta with a £1 jar of sauce, frozen peas and other veg. This evening we had a packet of chicken for £3.80 some flat breads £1.50 (used half) and a reduced salad bowl for 40p. There is chicken and salad left over and we are a family of 4. A packet of biscuits to fill up children at weekend 30p. Of course this is not ideal healthy food options but it is better than starving. A lot of these people will have TVs and smoke and also have other luxuries.

I don’t want a bashing and I am a very considerate person. I had always considered myself to be a ‘leftie’ but having grown up in that house hold it can work. My brother separated from his partner and they had a young daughter and she was openly better off with her income support, child tax credits, child benefit, rent paid and council tax benefit than when they had been a couple.

Don’t be so quick to make assumptions. Let’s educate people.

Someone once told me back in 2000 that a TV was a luxury im guessing you are posting from the same year.

I think if you are much older and young when certain things were not common, then these things do look like luxuries.

nonames It is common for people on benefits to have to pay towards the rent. Housing benefit often does not cover the full cost.

"I am a very considerate person"

No shit because othering a section of society by referring to them as "these people" is the epitome of consideration.

UC has been in since 2013 But i guess you have to catch up with this century before you can catch up to the right decade.

A fair few people would be happy to work for the benefits they get as long as they can't be deprived by unreasonable sanctions. All primary school children up to year 6 should be given the option of a free school meal (thats at least one hot meal a day for those struggling). Help people get into the position with incentivised training to relieve the services that are struggling eg the nhs. Start making budgeting, obtaining a morgage and other valuable life lessons part of the curriculum. The problem isn't as black and white as the rich vs the poor, but making the playing field as equal as possible by giving everyone access to the same opportunities.

We needed a properly funded Sure Start, and project work had been started to break the cycle with chaotic families. But it is very expensive, so has been cut.