to think that it's appalling that society has come to this

[floraloctopus]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-48119099

The school is described as the 4th emergency service (yes, I know that's the coastguard/lifeboats) as they are providing a food bank service, helping get rid of head lice, running training courses on cooking on a budget, meanwhile they are having to make staff redundant because of budgets.

It shouldn't be like this, children and families are suffering whilst the rich get richer thanks to the government policies which take from the poor and give to the rich.

It is lazy and misinformed thinking to blame a whole group of the electorate for the ills of one particular sector of society. Such scapegoating might be comforting and provide a lovely glowing sense of righteous anger but it is irrational and prejudiced.

Many problems and ills of individuals are complex and, in any case, dynamic, in that they often change for reasons beyond the control of others. Drug abusing and alcoholic parents and, sometimes, those who have money but cannot manage it, are beyond the help of altruists. At any rate, abusing voters is not the solution.

I speak of these matters with personal experience. My mother abused alcohol, we were technically homeless for ten months and sofa-surfed and mum had little money and sometimes none. If she did she spent it on alcohol and cigarettes. It wasn't anyone else's fault.

I live in an area where about 80% of the local population vote Conservative. They are lovely people: altruistic, helpful and concerned for others. They contribute to charities and give much free time to the community. They are polite, respectful, hardworking and contribute much to society through their taxes and through the sterling good sense they exhibit.

@BeesandGees

Why would you continue to produce more children if you are living in poverty........ I donated to a food bank regularly but boy did I get my eyes opened with regards to the regular users, mostly youngish mothers of multiple children, all born into ‘poverty’ yet continuing to be produced at regular intervals. The children were sadly not well cared for yet these women all managed to maintain their gel nails, hair extensions, latest fashions, fake tans, smoking habit. One actually asked for extra goods to sell as she was trying to get enough money to audition for The Voice 😳.

Really? So as well as dropping food off you spent time chatting to the users, and knew them well enough to know if they were regulars (and since there is generally a limit of 2 or 3 parcels per year then they can't be too regular)? You do know the foods provided by foodbanks are really basic like pasta, beans and cereal? How much do you think a can of beans goes for on the black market?

I think there are a few things here to mention .
Historically the taxation system in this country taxed very high earners more than now . This information was shared with me by a retired judge an ex Partner from a top law firm who by his own admission became significantly more wealthy once Maggie Thatcher got in 1979.
I am 50 and have observed huge inequalities in income between different economic groups - I have friends who own 15 houses in London and other friends who are both working full time in public sector worthwhile jobs and can’t get on the property ladder and this makes them more vulnerable as rents are ever increasing and there is a shortage of social housing.
More progressive taxation would be better / we should have a 60 percent Level for very high earners and our family would be happy to pay it as long as it gave opportunities for poorer families and improved quality of life for people in society .

Thank the Tories. YANBU.

Easy to spot the Tories on here,though.
An altruistic Tory? So they help their communities and then go and undo all the good they do by voting and supporting a party like that...just wow.

Op YANBU.

It’s down to the Torres and down to the fact that many people don’t bother voting. Richer people are more likely to vote which is why Torres get in. More should be done to encourage everyone to vote, if you don’t vote then you can’t really moan about the situation yet it will probably effect you hugely.

Local elections here last week and I spoke to many local people who insisted they would not be voting Tory, yet they still won by a huge amount. I live in a rich area and Tory’s always get in, because of this many think it’s not worth voting, it is worth voting. They did however lose a lot of votes and this shows that even the rich are starting to realise how messed up it all is (or I hope so).

Gingerkittykat...... yes really! There were no rules as to how often it could be used, there were lots of regulars - some maybe only until their situation improved but still regular. And no, it was certainly not just basics, it was whatever had been donated by either individuals or local shops and quite often seasonal luxuries which were past the event. You should not assume that you know how every food bank is run, nor assume that I only donated basics and left........

I don't undo all the good I do through volunteering just because I vote for a party of my choice. Two totally separate things.

Things won't change for future generations without hard measures and ensuring people take personal responsibility.

Too easy to blame it on a political party than accept poor choice where made and work hard to change the situation.

@Schrodingersbox Well yes, that’s kind of the point of a progressive tax system.

Speaking as a top rate tax payer - high earners don’t pay enough tax.

YANBU. I haven’t seen mass poverty levels like this since I was a small child myself. I’m in my 40s now. As such it’s taken the last 2 governments (coalition & Tory) circa 10 years to take us back 30 odd years.

The tax take (proportionally) used to also be a lot higher from business and industry. I think the elite and big business have got the benefits of a more mobile global population , more competition for work and downward pressure on salaries but the costs have been socialised (put on the taxpayer) through tax credits and the costs of the permanently unemployed who can't get jobs as businesses don't need to train up school leavers when there are skilled people from elsewhere willing to start for example. Decent wages and conditions, should be the norm, not tax credit top ups (made 2/3rds of families clients of the state) no more zero hours. If companies want to do business here they should pay their way.I feel we are all being farmed and made to feel insecure (housing, health etc) bred to scrabble around for the slim pickings.

It's shameful, we need to start training our school leavers, give children in poor areas hope of a future and stop poaching people from other places that need to keep their own young skilled people that they paid to train up to help their societies remain stable and grow too. The differentials in wages between those at the top and the middle and bottom also needs readressing (I can but dream)

I feel desperately sorry for the children but why on earth are parents having children they cannot afford? I realise that sometimes they have children and their circumstances change but to have them when they have no job, no decent place to live etc is just selfish.

A couple of doors away from me are a young couple (both aged 25). The girl hasn't worked for around 5 years and the guy only works 16 hours a week. They have 3 children - 8, 3 and 6 months.

There is quite a lot of work where I live. They can both drive and have 2 cars so one if not both can work quite easily.

They admit they claim benefits and have used the food bank.

They moan though that they have no money and have told us that this month they can't afford their rent (they were hinting to borrow money).

It came as a surprise to them that they would not receive extra benefits for the 3rd child apart from child benefit.

Looking at the responses, it would appear that many have forgotten the damage done by Gordon Brown in respect of the nation’s finances. That legacy remains today, the austerity we have endured for many years is an attempt to reduce our national debt, to improve our credit rating and in doing so encourage investment in the UK. I too resent the cuts, I see every day the harm this is doing, but you can’t blame it all on the Conservatives. I firmly believe society is failing, not just because of poverty but because so many of us feel disillusioned and resentful. Everyone seems so angry, there are so many more people suffering from mental health problems, there’s huge selfishness to be witnessed everywhere. It’s a sorry state of affairs.

We're not allowed to 'get rid of headlice'.

I feel desperately sorry for the children but why on earth are parents having children they cannot afford? I realise that sometimes they have children and their circumstances change but to have them when they have no job, no decent place to live etc is just selfish.

Well, quite.

The article that HelenaDove posted upthread about UC 'forcing' women to leave babies at the hospital (a sensationalist piece if ever there was one) featured a woman whose older children didn't have school shoes/uniforms but she 'discovered' herself in a position where she couldn't afford to buy stuff for her newborn baby.

Quelle surprise.

I know there are some parents that are irresponsible with the little money they have but in such a rich country children shouldn't go hungry. Whatever is happening with their family that results in them not having food isn't the children's fault.

I agree with JustMe. It's an unpleasant truth that under Brown/Blair, childbearing became a career for many and it was never going to be easy weaning the country off this false economy.

I've lived in other countries that are not as rich as the UK and IMO being poor here is much worse than a lot of other places. In many countries rent is cheaper or you live together as a big family and are not as interested in living in a decent house like people are here. Also, it is cold a lot of the time here and it costs a lot to heat your house and the bills are high. If you want to do anything in the UK it costs money whereas I have observed that a lot of other cultures just go out every night and socialise and spend very little. They have a much better quality of life.

I am always amazed at how our governments scrimp and cut back on school and education. They are basically shooting themselves in the foot by having an uneducated workforce that will lead to lots of low skilled work and more unemployment. Surely it is a ROI to educate the young in your society?

The original article has an example of a family suffering when their income dropped to £1600 a month. It’s not just a case of too little income - it is also too much outgoing. What sort of rent is wiping out so much of £1600? Why not blame the landlords. A drop in rent would be the difference between struggling and coping just fine.

I know there are some parents that are irresponsible with the little money they have but in such a rich country children shouldn't go hungry. Whatever is happening with their family that results in them not having food isn't the children's fault.

I agree with this, but at the same time, you cannot write all the feckless parents in the country a blank cheque.

Data from the Department for International Development showed £14.1billion of UK taxpayers' cash was handed out to projects in developing countries, compared with £13.4billion in 2016. Pakistan was the largest recipient of UK aid, receiving £402million during 2017, the figures showed. Other big hand outs last year included £327million to Nigeria, £326million to Ethiopia, £314million to Syria and £282million to Somalia.

Meanwhile our own school children have no food to eat. Austerity is no longer an excuse. Its like saying you are skint and then getting in your Porsche.

I see the blame-the-poor merchants are out again in full force.

Can easily see how parents could end up seriously struggling financially to provide for their DC even if they are working, due to INBUILT FLAWS in the UC system LIKE THIS (universal credit flaw in which working parents lose 100s or 1000s a year just because of the date they applied, ruled UNLAWFUL in the high court and yet they are still doing this to people every day) -
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46834533

Scotland has the same issues and you will have great difficulty finding a Tory voter there.

I remember several years ago when I was working in education all these brand new children’s centres were being opened (at great cost) with a view to offer multi-faceted support for anyone who may need a little additional support in any area with their family. Alongside this we were able to access local authority consultants for children who may have any sort of additional educational need, they would then provide specialist targeted support. I also did some work with a youth support team who would outreach into the community and attempt to access young people with sexual health advice, employment and education support etc. Now the children’s centres have been closed or privatised, the youth centres have all shut along with the vital teams who worked from them. The school’s have been sold off to academy trusts and the consultants have all been dispensed of into other roles so now the schools simply can’t afford to access them and pay for the privilege out of their meagre budgets every time. And those young people who were once being targeted and accessed through all of these services are now a very lost generation who are becoming parents themselves. It’s a mess quite frankly.