to think that it's appalling that society has come to this

[floraloctopus]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-48119099

The school is described as the 4th emergency service (yes, I know that's the coastguard/lifeboats) as they are providing a food bank service, helping get rid of head lice, running training courses on cooking on a budget, meanwhile they are having to make staff redundant because of budgets.

It shouldn't be like this, children and families are suffering whilst the rich get richer thanks to the government policies which take from the poor and give to the rich.

I’m not sure I said I invented that mindset anywhere in my post.

I am not sure I cast a negative judgement on anyone either? Just that we need to help people understand how to budget, allocate money and spend. I didn’t look down on them or say it was their fault did I? I don’t say let’s shoot the lazy lot because they’re a drain on our society. I am all for helping! But we also need to work with them on how to manage money. The old labour value of hand up rather than hand out.

Posters were suggested I am not a ‘nice’ person because of my post which is ridiculous as none of you have ever even met me or have any idea of what I am like or how my moral values stand.

I wonder how many of these problems have only come across after the council housing and had been sold off.

Council housing tended to be secure and affordable. Private rental (well at least in London) is the complete opposite.

What a paltry salary for such a colossal responsibility.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss - I think you'll find even wealthy areas need huge numbers of low paid people to service their requirements.

IrkedandAnnoyed - children are entitled to free school meals in England in reception, year 1 and year 2.

Everyone saying that they cannot afford to stay in rented property in London on UC - move out of London. We have had to move more than once for the sake of a job, surely that is the same.

My daughter and her fiancée were told how much they needed for a deposit here so they decided to move north, they saved like mad whilst staying with parents and within a year they had saved enough to raise a deposit for a house, they both found jobs up there and managed to get their own house.

So, if you can't afford London go elsewhere, you do not have an automatic right to live in a specific place. Yes, you might have friends there and the kids might go to school there, but there is potential friends everywhere, and surprisingly enough, there is also schools all around the country. You do not have the right to demand yet more money to simply live where you want to live.

Same as people that complain about black mould in council houses. We got black mould so we dealt with it, used a spray to remove it and reduced to moisture level by ventilating the area. It is easily dealt with but people that live in council houses/accommodation become paralysed by the fact that they think everything should be done for them.

Everyone saying that they cannot afford to stay in rented property in London on UC - move out of London

So once all the low wage workers move out of London, who is going to work in the cafes, do the cleaning jobs, remove the rubbish, teach our children, etc? The cost of using public transport from out of the zones is far too much for those on low wages.

Dd's primary did the same, fed children three meals a day, bought headlice lotion and nitty gritty combs and calpol, a TA cut children's hair, gave out uniforms, bought slow cookers and ran cooking lessons for parents, grew veg and gave it to those who needed it, had links with local foodbank. They did far more than any school would be expected to do.
I remember the HT stood outside the school in pouring rain of a morning to see which children didn't have warm coats so he could go to the charity shop and buy coats for those children. I and others passed uniforms and coats and wellies direct to the HT so that he could pass them to those in need.
I'm not so certain that the school in the article or dd's primary were rare I suspect there are plenty of schools having to do the same.

The ones that don't complain and simply get on with it.

Fucking hell. Now poor people shouldn't have TVs. In fact, they should sell their TV to pay for food for their family. Because second hand TVs have enormous value and will solve the food issue for what? All of a week?

And the usual tripe about 'hard work' and how poor people need 'education'. No amount of 'education' can make up front childcare costs of £1000 a month affordable to a single parent trying to get back to work on minimum wage and Universal Credit (which will take 6 weeks to kick in). And no education can make basic outgoings of £1000 a month add up when incomings are £800.

Move out of expensive areas? How does that work, then? Move away from family, schools, established support networks because you've been priced out? Minimum wage workers in London would need to move as far as.....Birmingham before housing became genuinely affordable (and probably not even then). Who is going to serve coffee, clean schools and hospitals and care for the dying?

I have three jobs, my children and the care of an elderly parent to manage yet according to the ideology spouted here, don't work hard, never worked hard at school, and am generally stupid because I need educating (I have a Masters and professional qualifications in case you're in any doubt). We wouldn't be 'poor' if my ex paid maintenance. Maybe that's something you could get angry about instead?

Some of the comments are unbelievable and seemed to be aimed at the wrong people, everyone is actually losing out in the long run except the corrupt, to live in a fair world, people on benefits shouldn't have children, people who work are harder done to, people who are successful are made pay more because they have been more successful, yet there are people who are very poor at their jobs, take freebies and extras they haven't earned and only care about themselves I call these people government

I read this yesterday. It's disgusting and shameful that this is what children have to endure in this day and age. I grew up in a poor area and you did hear about schools helping, but not to this extent. The parents being helped usually were unemployed and had drug or alcohol problems, but a lot of these parents are working, which makes it far worse.

I can't wait to get shot of Brexit and the Tories and this mess gets sorted out (hopefully), instead of hearing the usual retort of "the best way out of poverty is to be in work". Unfortunately that isn't the case for a lot of people and the rest of us who have a little more - but certainly not a lot - are expected to prop the less fortunate up, while the top 1% are allowed to avoid tax. All that is being created right now is a cycle of poverty, as children who can't learn properly will most likely have poorer outcomes.

It is nice to hear about stories of teachers and HT being kind and buying food, but this burden should not fall on them.

The middle classes are already taking a huge financial hit. Yes it's not great but all the "the rich get richer" bollocks isn't helpful.

nonamesleftatall fyi, NO ONE on benefits gets £1600 after rent!! The 'cap' (max amount for everyone and usually applying to those in London) is £1600 and INCLUDES rent and child benefits. It would be impossible to get more as the legislation doesn't allow it. There are a multitude of reasons UC system doesn't work and is causing poverty and I think you and others should educate yourselves on these inbuilt flaws before deciding that people are struggling cause they can't budget - the worst imo are the following and you could start by googling them -

The 5 week wait which when starting UC you just don't get paid for 5 weeks (including no rent) and have to take out a loan from the govt to survive. Which is deducted in full off your benefits over a year.

The assessment period problem. Google 'single working mothers win high court battle universal credit' - some los e thousands a year just due to getting paid by employers last day of month etc and it clashing with assessment periods. Govt has been ruled to be acting unlawfully yet still doing this to people every day. See also CPAG report 'rough justice'

The childcare cap which restricts childcare help to amounts which are nowhere near the actual costs of child care.

The debt repayments. Owe any money to utilities, council tax etc?? 40% of your benefit payment can be taken each month and given to debts. If UC make a mistake (common) and you are underpaid, when you get backpay , they offer it to your debts first.

Now can you see why people, even the 'deserving' , could end up in dire straits??

Sorry I apologise if it seems I'm picking out your post, it wasn't meant, it 's just that it dismays me every time someone suggests it's all a matter of cooking lentils etc..

Lavenderhedgehog I have no idea how much people get but presumably the particular person mentioned in the article would also get a careers allowance as caring for poorly partner, a disability allowance if partner is too ill to work and requires a carer as well as some sort of allowance for the child who was also severely autistic? Maybe these along with universal credit and child benefit? I have no idea! Not forgetting in addition to to this there may be maintenance from a previous partner/parent.

Please don’t misunderstand that I don’t think anyone should go hungry.

I agree that the middle classes are being hammered, however the rich are not. If you are on PAYE, whatever your income, then you're a sitting duck for the government tax take. The Tories have skewed the system to ensure that rich people can legally avoid tax. It's just us mugs that have to pay our taxes. Coming from the corporate world but having a career change into education, it's been a real eye opener to see the struggles some people have to clothe and feed their children. And I'm talking working people here - for example children apologising about their shoes, saying 'my mum says she will get me new ones once she's been paid'. We used to donate funds for places on residential courses for children whose parents couldn't afford to take them, and it was money well spent. I'm beyond outraged about the state of our country under this Tory government, their punishment of poor people, their decimation of public services and their hypocrisy - pretending they are on the side of ordinary people, when they're obviously not. How can we, as a society, ever condone innocent children being so disadvantaged? I wholeheartedly agree with the opening poster on this thread.

£1600 is the equivalent of £2400 a month gross. Being handed that per month isn't bad if you actually manage to deal with priorities first. Rent should be paid, I am assuming council tax is paid if you are on full UC, then utilities, then food.

Mobile phones are nice to have but are NOT essential. Yes, have an old TV that you got cheap, but not one that takes up most of the wall in a small room so you can't sit far enough from it and it wrecks your eyesight.

Smoking is not an essential either, so if you are broke you should stop. Yes, I know it is not that simple, but if it comes down to a choice between smoking and food it is clear what choice should be made.

My thoughts on this are that the essential bills should be paid direct through the UC system, OK I know it's complicated, but it would get them paid. Then the rest should be given in vouchers that can only be used for food. It would be illegal to use them for alcohol and tobacco.

I've seen too many people buy their cigarettes as soon as they get their money through, then a couple of weeks later they run out of food and money, but they have enough cigarettes to last the month. (Used to work in Martin's and they told me what they were doing, couple of times I refused to serve them but my boss threatened to sack me if I continued, reasoned they would go elsewhere if they had to. We weren't even the cheapest shop to do this at, they just couldn't be bothered to walk 15 minutes down the road.

Lone working parents make up a lot of TC/UC claimants. I'm one.
One of two things would take me right off TC -
DC father actually paying maintenance.
Employer paying a wage that can be lived on.

Cannot reduce outgoings, rent - fixed, c tax - fixed, water - fixed, travel to work - fixed, school uniform etc - fixed. Food - lowest budget, gas/elec - lowest use possible, have to have clean/dry people and clothes for work school, broadband - needed for homework by GCSE student DC - lowest I could find, phone - needed for work contact, lowest PAYG tariff. Clothes/deodorant/shoes for me etc - needed for work, probably false economy but cheap and cheerful and lasts about 5 minutes.
By Friday night I will have done 51 hours this week. What I will earn from that won't cover all the outgoings. And I still have to deal with issues from school, my house desperately needs cleaning, I am perfectly capable of cooking from scratch, however when the fuck I'm meant to do all this when I'm always at work, trying to earn enough to pay all the above, I'd fucking love to know. Oh I suppose I could just get less sleep than the 5/6 hours I average, but then I'm likely to make mistakes at work. Could also do the same to do some further education. Not sure how effective I'd be at learning with less sleep though, and I don't have enough money anyway.
All my money is paid back out, to everyone else, every month.
And then the likes of me get sneered at, told we don't work hard enough, need education, need a work ethic.
Fuck.Right.Off.

One of the ladies at our local foodbank cried because she was given shampoo and didn’t need to wash her hair in washing up liquid. Her poor hair was in such a mess because she’d tried to keep clean but didn’t have enough money to feed her children and buy shampoo at 99p a bottle. Think on that!

nonamesleftatall MOST on UC don't get anywhere near £1600 though!! That's only the maximum, like if you live in London. I was on £900 a month with child when I was unemployed!! And fyi again Carer's Allowance is deducted £1 for £1 from any UC you receive so no, no carers allowance.

You also did not acknowledge any of the major flaws in the system which believe me are causing the schools to have to bridge the gaps. The current govt have created a system which is massively flawed, like a game of snakes and ladders, and THAT is why people are struggling. Nothing to do with lentils and budgeting for MOST. There is no point explaining the flaws which are (slowly and hopefully) being challenged through the high courts, because people like you just don't want to know and would prefer to believe the problem lies with swathes of poor people being feckless!!

Daytimesleeper I agree. Fuck.Right.Off !! I actually hope those who do the sneering and judging lose their well paid jobs or well paid spouses and have to be at the mercy of the system. It seems that for some, then and only then will they realise what is/has been done to the safety net.

"Instead of any child getting a decent education let’s give them all an equally crap one!"

See how quick the magic money tree suddenly shakes millions into schools the minute all of the MPs kids have to attend the local comp.

Same as the nhs. See how much money is pumped into the NHS when MPs can no longer have private healthcare. There is no incentive.

The elephant in the room is the cost of housing.

Most things in the UK such as food and clothing are cheap in comparison to other countries. The real problem is the cost of housing and this problem started with NuLabour who built almost no social housing over their 13 years in office, massively increased the population which caused a huge rise in demand, a drop in the quality of housing and a huge increase in rent and mortgage costs, oversaw the pernicious introduction and creep of Buy to Let which has decimated the owner occupier market, increased the price of housing by many hundreds of thousands, created a generation of greedy landlords who think that they are entrepreneurs because they were born at the right time to buy cheap housing and now extract the products of other peoples labour whilst sitting on their arses and condemned another generation to perpetual servitude because of this.

Instead of the Tories sorting out the housing mess left by Labour, they decided to go even further in and introduced "Help to Buy" which is like pouring petrol on a fire. I hope the Tories get absolutely decimated and lets hope neoliberalism is dead and buried.

all of our politicians send their children to private schools,
I think that’s unlikely - all Labour MPs?

Southwestten

all of our politicians send their children to private schools,
"I think that’s unlikely - all Labour MPs?"
Of course its not going to happen, because all MPs know how underfunded state schools are.

I wonder how many of these problems have only come across after the council housing and had been sold off.

The answer is that the owner of that property has changed and we have a large council estate near here and you can tell which ones were sold they have been expanded looked after etc, and yes a few have gone to buy to let landlords.

However.

The ammount of housing has stayed the same this is the real propblem not who may "own" that house but the lack of houses.

I did argue in an ealier post for the PLANNING system to be changed land to be relased of on condition it was used for housing association projects for decent houses well buitl and designed, three bedroom ones that had high levels of insulation perhaps solar water heating etc to reduce carbon and costs.

The idea is to reduice the price of building land, thats a big cost factor for housing.