Moaning about being ‘poor’ when rich

[freetone]

AIBU to think if you are childless, go on 3 holidays abroad per year and live in a 4 bed detached house on a private road then you don’t have the right to moan about being ‘poor’? My DF and his wife have been like this recently. He earns over £150k a year. It shows how far away from reality they are imo. Really gets on my nerves when there are millions of people genuinely struggling. Anyone else experienced people like my Father?

I remember my late mother telling me about her sister crying over being down to their last £300. This was 1946 and her DSis and BIL also had three houses that were rented out in addition to their home.

It is relative.

We and nearly all of our friends have what might be perceived as a high household income but I wouldn’t say any of us are cash rich. Many are paying school fees and uni fees. Of course it’s great to be able to afford them, but it means a huge chunk of income is gone on this.

BitBored Poor is the opposite extreme.

Struggling to make ends meet because income is very low, homelessness means being poor, children not having enough to eat is poor, mothers not being able to eat so they can feed their children is poor, having to use food banks; I could go on.

I don't consider someone poor because they can't afford to buy the latest mobile that cost £££ or they don't have the latest 3d television or their car is ten years old.

There is a very wide spectrum between rich and poor that most people fit into somewhere. Most people struggle a bit, some are a bit better off and some are a lot better off than the average.

There seems to be some odd definitions of rich and poor in this country.

@fancynancyclancy it’s about being sensitive.
Moan all you like amongst people with the same sort of income etc. But certainly don’t moan about it with someone who could never afford it!

Or be more matter of fact about it.

I wouldn’t moan to my family members on benefits about not being able to afford a detached house, for example, when they’re never ever going to buy.

fancy You can moan about not being able to afford to buy a house, just don't claim you are poor around people who actually are.

But I am a homeowner & our income is under 100k. However that doesn’t stop me recognising that the neighbours who earn more than me have less disposable income simply because I’m a few yrs older than them.

I never said 100k was poor. I said it wasn’t rich if you have to support a family on that income & you are not in the housing ladder or only got on it recently.

yabu you have the right to moan about what you like who are you to say what people can and cant say

I had a friend who was like this. She'd go skiing and another self catering holiday in the summer, but was too poor to buy her dcs more than one Christmas or birthday present each. Also she'd get her relatives to give her money for her dcs presents and instead of buying presents it'd go towards the holidays. She was also so poor she got her relatives to pay for expensive refurbishment of her house, telling them she wanted to sell it to move nearer her dcs school and then didn't move. All she did was moan about having no money when she was buying clothes from sea salt etc...

I would personally classify anyone with a household income of £100k pa as rich.
Not super rich like Philip Green etc but very definitely rich.

However, interestingly and bewilderingly nobody I know with this kind of income thinks of themselves as rich.

if your earnings are over £100k this puts you into the top 4% of household incomes in the UK and that is rich in my view.

I remember on another board a poster used only being able to afford Disneyland Paris at Easter and a week in a cottage somewhere for that year's holidays as an example of how hard up she was. Along with only buying Next clothes for the kids and driving a 5 year old car. At that time I was so skint I literally didn't have the price of a bus ride into town to my name. This woman was just so privileged she'd lost sight of reality.

I have a friend who keeps talking about how hard up she is and that she'll soon be living in a tent.

Lives in a lovely 5 bed country cottage in sought after village, husband a banker, 2 kids in private schools (fees of 15k-20k a year per child), have just been to Tobago and Switzerland, but are sad now and "poor" as can "only afford Spain" for the summer now.

They can only afford a car (4x4 natch) that is already 1yr old, also very tough, apparently.

I do take the piss out of her, and weirdly she's still a proper friend.

But the poverty dialogue grates, at times (by comparison, our kids go to state school, our car is 10 years old, we holiday in Devon or Dorset)

People are just oblivious....

I think the word 'rich' is very subjective. It means different things to different people. I used to work in the finance industry on products aimed at "high net worth individuals". Which was defined as an individual earning over £100k pa (single, not joint income) or with £250k in assets excluding their main home. I call that rich. Whereas my DH and I have at various times had a joint income over £100k - we both worked full time, we had a mortgage on a nice flat (not London), a cheap car, lots of foreign holidays - no kids then - and were able to save. But I wouldn't have said we were rich, only very comfortable (ie no money worries day to day). That would have changed quickly if either of us lost our jobs though. On the other hand, I would never have called us poor either.

On the positive side, on £100k a year you could definitely buy a 2 bed flat in many areas of London.

So does being able to afford a 2 bed flat in London makes you rich? Whose richer the couple on 100k in a 500k flat, or the pensioner on 20k but in a 1.5m house?
Looking at income alone to determine whose is rich is far too simplistic imo.

That’s interesting PigsDOFly, thanks for replying.

I think what interests me is that using your definition of poverty (and I agree that not being able to buy a fancy tv etc is not poor!), a significant number of people in the UK are poor. Whereas using your definition of rich (“at least a couple of massive homes, several cars, probably some sort of largish yacht etc”) very few people in the UK would be considered rich.

It’s a matter of perspective and tact. Years ago I had a Saturday job in the canteen of a department store chain. All the staff in there were on minimum wage. We got a Christmas bonus - I think it was 10% of our monthly gross pay. All the women were talking about how, if we got it in time, they could buy extra/nicer food or Christmas or something extra for their children. Then one of the executive, the staff manager, came in telling us she was going to treat herself to a new silver ornament for her collection and some perfume. It didn’t score highly on the ‘how to win friends and influence people’ scale.

When I was a SAHM a lot of people used to say “I wish I could afford to be a SAHM” whilst having two new brand new cars in the drive of their new house and 3 foreign holidays a year and grandparents picking up the childcare. They just didn’t want to downsize their lifestyle any.

I would also say that anyone who can afford to pay private school fees is rich. You may not have much left after paying for them but that is your choice, that's the point. The rich have choices whether to pay out tens of thousands on school fees and big mortgages. You only have these choices if you are rich.

Super rich is another league, we are talking the 1%.

I know someone who was so “ poor” she had to go and live on a chateau in France as she couldn’t afford to live in England any longer

So does being able to afford a 2 bed flat in London makes you rich? Whose richer the couple on 100k in a 500k flat, or the pensioner on 20k but in a 1.5m house?

I was using that example because you had said a family with an income of £100k a year weren’t rich as in London they might be paying £2k a month to rent a 2 bed flat.

And both the people in your scenario are doing considerably better than the majority of people in the UK who have neither a high income or valuable assets.

Is there some rule that says this debate must be had at least fortnightly on MN?

Yes top 4% of incomes is not subjective. If you earn £100k plus, you earn more than 94% of people in this country. Of course you are rich.

I was using that example because you had said a family with an income of £100k a year weren’t rich as in London they might be paying £2k a month to rent a 2 bed flat.
You forgot to add the childcare, what about if they had 2 children?

I will say it again looking at income alone is far too simplistic when discussing what rich is.

We and nearly all of our friends have what might be perceived as a high household income but I wouldn’t say any of us are cash rich. Many are paying school fees and uni fees. Of course it’s great to be able to afford them, but it means a huge chunk of income is gone on this

You do realise private school is not compulsory?

If it leaves you so “cash poor”, there are plenty of excellent state schools.

Like pp said, anyone paying for private school is not poor. It’s your choice.

Pisses me off so much. I've been homeless. No roof, no food, nada.

My parents have both retired early, have some inheritance, have good pensions, rent out a high end flat, blah blah.

The fuss which is made over every single penny makes me feel like insects are crawling on me. Neither of them have ever had nothing and gone without food so their kids can eat.

I've had to sell most of my possessions on several occasions. I'm lucky to be in a better situation now but I don't take it for granted.

People who keep insisting "it's relative" are usually those who are oblivious to or uncomfortable with the idea of how exceedingly fortunate they are.

You forgot to add the childcare, what about if they had 2 children?

Okay, so they have £5.5k a month coming into the house. Their rent is £2k. Their childcare is £1.5k. They contribute £500 to a pension.

If they want another child then they could:

• move to a cheaper area of London. This could halve their rental expenditure.
• look for more affordable childcare. While I agree childcare is expensive, not every nursery will charge £1.5k a month.
• consider reducing their pension contributions while their children are in childcare
• dip into any savings they might have built up while earning £100k a year

It’s nice to have so many options available, people on lower incomes generally have far fewer choices available to them.