to decline a family holiday in favour of my dream job

[sonsnet]

Hi all.

First time poster here and not a mum (actually a son raised by brilliant women)! I've ghosted on the AIBU posts for a while now and thought this would be the best place to get advice.

My aunt was recently diagnosed with terminal cancer (less than 2 years left to live)! She recently had a stroke and, through the process, we uncovered that she did not have any of her affairs in proper order (will, finances, etc). There was a very intense period of about a week where I was forced to take time off work to help sort out all of these issues at very late notice, as we feared the worst as a result of her stroke.

She is much better now, though still terminal. She has offered to pay for a family trip to the USA to go to Disney World in September. She told our family about this on one day and the next day was asking us to confirm she could book our flights! I work in the kind of job where I can get annual leave at a moments notice and I've only recently had it confirmed, and she is every day pressuring me and my partner to confirm if we can come. It is all very rushed and already there have been lots of mix ups because things are being booked very quickly.

I am very grateful to be invited and I have already said thank you and that she is very generous (we are a big family). On the one hand, I think it's a very irresponsible spending because I know her finances are not in order and she will be leaving behind my Gran who paid for a big chunk of the house they share and will not be financially stable after she is gone. I have parked all of these concerns, though, because at the end of the day it is her money and she can spend it how she wants.

However, she keeps using her illness as a weapon to guilt people into going. My niece is going into reception in September and might miss her first day of school. My aunt keeps saying that she is terminally ill and that the school should make exceptions. I personally think no child should miss their first day of school but this is not my battle to fight.

I recently mentioned that I can not go for the full duration of the holiday (3 weeks long!) and will only be able to make it for 10 days at most because I cannot take such a long stint out of my job. She again tried to make me feel bad and pressure my job to give me more time off because she is terminally ill. I explained I couldn't do this and offered to organise all my own flights and travel myself because I know it's awkward for her.

But recently I was approached by my manager and basically told I would be stupid not to apply for a job that is coming up and that she is confident I would have a very good shot at getting it. It is a very high profile job and something I have had my eye on since I started my career (I am only 24 and feel like this is a vital stage). Unfortunately the job would start on 2nd September and the holiday takes place for the first 3 weeks of September. I spoke to my manager and the team recruiting for the role and, because of the high-profile and high-intensity nature of the role she feels it is unlikely I would be hired if I needed 10 days off right at the start.

I am now stuck between a rock and a hard place! I see my aunt all the time and I love her dearly, but now I dread telling her about this offer. It really is a very rare opportunity. Not quite once in a lifetime but something like it won't arise for a good few years and my career will probably suffer. Not that it matters, but I am the first in my family to go to university and the only one of my siblings who is in a professional job with a promising career. I have worked so hard to push my career forward and I feel heartbroken that I have to make this decision! No money has been spent on me so far for accomodation, flights or any kind of travel.

Would I be unreasonable to say no to the holiday?

If the employer won’t hold a ‘high profile’ job open for 10 days for the right candidate then there’s something fishy. I have worked in a number of sectors and have literally never come across this.

But that may not be the scenario. It may be that there are two candidates of similar merit, one can start on the due date, one can't. The employers may well take the view that, if they're having difficulty making a decision, they will go for the one who can start when they need her to start.

Job over holiday (which sounds like a nightmare). Are the flights booked? Can you go late on a Friday after work and return on a Sunday 9ish days later. Not ideal with jet lag etc but only means missing 5 days of work if you work M to F. Personally I’d rather stay home and burn £20 notes than take part in something like this but then my family are somewhat argumentative and dysfunctional and would probably try and kill each other.....

I feel for your aunt, trying to make this amazing memory for everyone. But she is pushing this and there is just so much that could go wrong. She is at greater risk of having a stroke, having had one already, and this could come without warning while on the holiday (on a ride even). She may be feeling much worse by then. If she is healthy now she’d be better arranging something shorter and quicker. And in Europe, for healthcare reasons.
A terminal diagnosis is a lot to come to terms with but I don’t think this is the answer. Being there for her over the difficult times to come is more important.

When a friend of ours was diagnosed with terminal cancer a couple of years ago, she was hell-bent on going on holiday with her family, planning it for March or April last year. Her husband persuaded her that they'd rather spend the time with her at home than faffing around travelling, worrying about her on the journey etc. As it turned out, she was so ill in March she would never have been fit to travel anyway, and she very sadly died in early May. Her family were very glad that they had been able to use that time concentrating solely on her rather than on fruitless travel arrangements.

Dana28, plenty of people will regret missed opportunities later in life though. I couldn’t give up my job when my dm was dying, does that mean I put work over family? She isn’t here and I still need to pay the mortgage. She would also have been the first to tell my 24-year-old self to do the best I could in my career, and I’m not sure why the OP’s aunt doesn’t do the same.

Take the job with 2 hands!

Also if this is a Brexit related government job for example it really is time pressured!

If you work in certain political/government sectors then there are very definitely jobs that come up that come with very specific requirements on when you can take holiday or not. If you work on campaigns then it is often a given that you cannot take any annual leave during that time and you sign a contract in advance to that effect - when I was hiring in those situations, somebody telling me that they couldn't be available for the first couple of weeks would mean that I couldn't hire them at all if it was a new project/team, or that I would see whether the second best candidate would do.

I would personally take the job - I think your aunt is panicking and not thinking straight at the moment.

Having done Disney a few years ago with family, I can confirm that it ends up considerably more expensive that you think - the cost of food and drinks in the parks is huge.

You certainly do not come across as a selfish brat. Just reading about this scenario gives me the shivers. You portray your aunt as someone who doesn’t understand finance. Please sit down with her and look at all the costings if she will let you. That might be enough to get through to her the true cost of the holiday. If possible get another family member to sit with you. Although your aunt is paying for most of the holiday it sounds as if the rest of the family won’t be able to afford the extras she can’t afford. I sincerely hope your aunt can recover some of the money as it doesn’t look like this holiday will happen.

You need to say ‘my leave has been cancelled, this is not going to work for me, but I want to come and spend time with you on x date’. Sadly she has been misguided in her plans and it will not anyway be the trip she had hoped. Maybe if you appeal to the comanies and her capacity is in any doubt they might refund?

I would prioritise the job. I got offered my dream job and needed to cancel a planned trip to Disney World (I say, planned only in the sense we planned to go but had not yet booked flights). My parents live in Florida and my mum had just finished cancer treatment (she’s in remission and fine so plenty of opportunities to visit again in the future, at least as many as there always were given they are late 60s now).

The job, however, was a rare find. I work in a niche field so jobs do not come available often. It was also a £10k pay raise. I didn’t think twice to take the job. My mum came to visit us instead. We’ll visit her again later in the year when things settle down.

As you are a grown up, I don’t know that a trip to Disney is that ‘once in a lifetime.’ I mean it’s nice (I’ve been many times), but it’s more for kids unless you’re really into that sort of thing. I would find time to spend with your aunt in other ways that are special.

I agree, she's panicking, which is understandable after such a devastating diagnosis, but I'd be really worried that she won't even be able to go on holiday. Doctors are only able to give rough predictions and the '2 years' is only a likely average. She could live considerably less than that - or much of it in poor health - or she could live longer, but it seems like extreme folly to me to be booking such a big, expensive trip when all it would take is another stroke and she could be bed-bound, or much worse. What happens if she's too unwell to travel - will everyone be expected to go off on this long holiday and leave her behind? The whole thing sounds seriously ill-thought-out.

Who is willing to insure her?

Because my grandmother and Father couldn't come to visit me in the States with far less serious health issues. I can't see any insurance company willing to insure her.

My friend has cancer and it's run well over $2 million at this point.

It's dreadful that your aunt is terminally ill, but it seems she is panicking and bulldozing everyone else in her determination to get in this big family holiday. In her haste she is being so misguided and seems blind that it is only her who is set on the trip, and is trying to carry everyone along with her. But you have to remember your life will go on once she has gone, and that's why you must prioritise the job in this instance. You can obviously spend as much quality time as you can in the intervening months, but I would just be gentle but firm with her. Apply for the job. When your aunt is a lovely memory you may start to wonder 'what if', if you don't apply. It's a dilemma, but in reality you don't even know if she will be able to make the holiday.

If your relatives have criminal convictions, there is a VERY high chance that they will be refused entry at Immigration. Very high. They may not even be granted ESTAs which would basically blow their travel plans out of the water. Your aunt's travel insurance is going to cost a stratospheric amount, well into four figures, if she is even ok to fly.

This holiday is very unlikely to go ahead. Take the amazing job (its not Prime Minister, is it?), and arrange to spend time with your aunt sooner rather than later.

And there's the question of travel insurance. Who is going to insure a terminally ill woman? Especially if things take a turn for the worse when she is in the US. Everyone knows how eye-wateringly expensive health care is there. She should at least hold off until she gets an answer from the insurers - if she gets insured I'd be surprise. And without insurance she should not be going.

Prioritise the job. You can spend quality time with your aunt in a different way. Besides, holidaying in large groups is a nightmare.

There are specialist insurers who insure terminally ill individuals for travel.

Ninkaninus, I didn't know that. I wonder how much it costs.

I haven’t any direct experience but I imagine the premiums are hefty. And travel to the US more so, I’d imagine.

Hesitant to discuss it too much on the thread, but I do know it’s possible to get cover.

Hi all.

Thank you so much for all of your help and advice so far (what a great first induction to mumsnet)! I hope I can trouble you for a little bit more help. I have written out what I am going to send to my family. I would usually do this by phone or at least in an individual message, but our family strangely primarily communicates by a large group messenger. I know most of you will think this is odd and a bit impersonal - but please know this is the norm (we're odd, I know)!

I'd be extremely grateful if you could provide any thoughts or editorial notes on the below. (Extremely hoping no one in my family uses IABU on Mumsnet!!

Hi everyone.

Sorry for what is a long message, but I’d tie myself in knots if I didn’t say all this. I hope you don’t think I’m being unfair, morbid, or selfish with any of this.

Firstly, I’m sorry but I’m going to decline the very generous offer to come on holiday with everyone to Florida. It really is the adventure of a life time and I can’t even believe as I’m typing this that I’m saying no. I’d love nothing more than to spend two weeks with you all experiencing Disney magic and making lifetime memories.
My manager approached me this week and asked me whether I would like to be considered for a job as [REDACTED] starting in September when I [REDACTED]. I know [REDACTED] doesn’t sound like much, but it is quite a prestigious and high-profile role to have and is known as a career making opportunity. You basically get to spend all day every day [REDACTED]. It’s an incredibly difficult role to get and to even be considered your manager must approach you to tell you they think you are suitable (which is very rare!) and then they must endorse you to apply. Most managers rarely make more than 1 endorsement a year.

Because this starts in September, I asked my manager whether the annual leave I had booked would be an issue and the short story is that yes it would. Because it is such a time-sensitive and high-profile role, it is unlikely that they would accept me if I had to take even 5 days off in the first month: even if I was the best candidate. They would probably just default to 2nd best who could start on 2nd September with no breaks.

This really is a huge career opportunity for me and could really shift my trajectory to the next level. Most people that work in [REDACTED] go on to reach the most senior roles in their career.

I am so grateful for the invite to attend [aunt] and you have been so generous to invite us all. It has been a tough decision to make and I have been wracked with guilt and felt so bad considering this over the past few days.

Another thing I just wanted to say is that I think you should really stop and take stock about whether this holiday is definitely what you want to do and whether it is a realistic and sensible thing to be doing. I know it is the holiday of a lifetime, but I think we have been very rushed in booking lots of separate elements without sitting down and really thinking about different outcomes and costs. I have already mentioned this a few times but we have still pressed on with the booking. I hope this is an opportunity to sit down and really think. Please know I don’t mean any of these to be upsetting or offensive, I really want to make sure we’re weighing up the options:

• What if you aren’t well enough to travel in September? I appreciate it is only a few months away, but things can change very quickly and you may just not be up to it. It would be an awful situation if people were faced with the choice of going without you or losing all the money spent.

• What if the worst happens? You are at an increased risk for DVT which long flights really exacerbate. Rollercoaster rides also increase the risk of strokes and the chance of you having a stroke whilst on a ride is probably quite high. There are so many things that could go wrong medically whilst you are abroad. It’s similar but not as extreme for granddad. You will be far from home in a country with a very unforgiving medical system.

• What happens if you must be rushed into hospital when you are out there? California has filial responsibility laws which means family members can be directly liable for medical costs if you cannot cover them yourself. The USA have recently been preventing people from leaving the country if they have outstanding medical debts. Are you prepared for this eventuality? Even medical insurance likely will not cover the full cost if there is a pre-existing condition.

• Hospitalisation in the US can easily run into hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars (not exaggerating) and it’s unlikely any insurance will cover this.

• As you’re experiencing now, insurance is going to be hard to get. I strongly advise that, if you do decide to go, you declare everything and just pay the cost of the insurance. The alternative simply isn’t worth imagining. There’s no point getting basic cover because it will be invalidated by not telling them about pre-existing conditions.

• Is everyone else prepared for what this is going to cost? I know you are all planning to try and budget for this, but it is going to be expensive whatever you try to do. Everything in the parks is going to be expensive, all the extras are going to be expensive. I think you will very quickly rack up costs that become simply unaffordable. Me and [Partner] had a chat about this and we had doubts about whether it was financially doable for just two of us with no kids, pets, or any extras (even with [aunt] kindly paying for a lion’s share!)

• Everyone with criminal convictions [redacted names] you also really need to consider if it is worth the risk. I know for all of you it was a while ago or you were young, but they are all also violent crimes which the US is very harsh on. Is it worth the risk of travelling and having to turn back?

• There are probably lots of risks that I haven’t even thought of that can arise: but I really think this is an ambitious idea that needs some proper road-testing and consideration.

I know lots has been booked already, but now really is the opportunity to stop and take stock of all these thoughts and decide whether you want to progress with this. Things that are advertised as non-refundable often can be refunded in some way (maybe with a small cost attached), and emphasizing your medical condition may make this easier to do.

If you are going to continue, I really recommend that you stop paying for anything else until each expense is properly planned. You need to create an excel document or tracker and plan all your remaining costs extensively before booking anything. Once you have got everything on paper you can make an informed decision about how much it is going to cost [Aunt] and how much it is going to cost everyone as an individual. This piecemeal approach will just continue to raise surprise costs and everyone’s budgets will be smashed out of the water.

I’m sorry that I am saying now this: I appreciate it is probably not what lots of you want to hear. I am also sorry that I didn’t fully raise all of this sooner. I know I’ve mentioned along the way a few of these, but I should have been much sterner from the start. I’m not saying any of this out of negativity or because I don’t want you to go: I just want what is best for everyone.

It’s not too late to switch up our plans. I still think a holiday to Spain, France, or even somewhere in the UK in the summer (Cornish seaside?) would be lovely and be much less expensive and risky for everyone involved. We could organise it in the coming summer months so it is less likely you will end up feeling worse or unable to travel and we all will be able to come!

Ultimately, though, it is up to you what you decide to do. It’s your money and you are free to spend it how you like – you’ve worked hard enough to earn it! If you do decide to carry on with Florida, [partner] and I are more than happy to help you set up an excel doc or some budget predictions and try to model what the remaining costs to you and all individuals will be. If you decide to cancel, I will spend as long on the phone as I need to get as much of your money back as possible. If you want to organise a different trip closer to home, I’m happy to sign up to do all the organisation and planning and take as much stress away from you as possible.

Please do know that I’m only saying this because I want what is best for everyone. I love you all very very much and I want you to have the best time you can have. In my eyes, it isn’t important where we go or what we do, it’s only important we do it together.

[NAME]

(wow - sorry that is much longer than I thought!!)

That message is far too long. For a start take out everything after the bits about you not coming. If this is an extended family group, I don't see why it is your responsibility to worry about the 5 year old school dates, the multiple family members with criminal convictions, grandad's health problems or whether your terminally ill, stroke recovering aunt should be riding on a roller coaster.

Tell them you're sorry that you and your partner won't be going because you're unable to take the leave from work because of the amazing promotion you're lined up for. You're grateful to your aunt for her generous offer, but know that she'll understand and be happy for your career opportunity. You hope that all those who are able to go have a great time and you look forward to spending lots of time with your aunt before the trip. And that if she wants your help in pricing the trip up, you're happy to still help.

Crikey that's far too long! And far too apologetic.

Think of it this way: every point you give her is a point that can be argued with (this is a good lesson for your shiny new political job too...)

Keep it brief. You've been given an amazing opportunity that means you can't travel on the dates, sorry, but feel that you have to follow the role.

I would let the dust settle on that for a wee while then send the points about whether the trip should happen at all to her separately, not on a group message.

But actually what would be hugely better would be if a couple of family members could come with you to speak to her in person about that.

Never apologise, never explain...