To be sad and horrified that rape convictions have dropped to 1.7%

[darkriver19886]

I am utterly horrified. This article came up on my newsfeed and I am shocked that it has dropped so low and it's likely it will be dropped even further with the move to take victims phones.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-victims-phones-police-investigation-disclosure-forms-cps-a8888376.html?fbclid=IwAR00s8kr5yRHXzqN1xQqeoL95A6u1VYidBaPV-T0RPAe8sclst-b6b5aiFk

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3572251-Rape-victims-must-hand-over-phone-or-police-wont-pursue-crime

Theres another thread here about it.

You are right op

Rape is legal
In a world where underwear an attacker wont even have seen until the attack was underway, one can only assume the intention is to make things harder in order to punish women

Sorry for all of those who have been.through such a horrific crime

Only going to get worse without campaigning

Police who dealt with her case were an uncaring bunch of useless cunts.

The police who dealt with my son's girlfriend were really lovely, as was the doctor. The rapist appeared to be known to them. We later found out he had a record for other crimes.

It was the CPS that decided not to proceed. I've never understood why. The victim was tiny, the rapist was huge and I don't think many potential jurors would have believed a fastidious young woman would willingly have sex in a filthy men's loo. Her clothes were covered in piss, FFS.

It wasnt long ago that councils were forcing women to provide their rapists access to their (product of that rape) children. Rotherham or similar.

Rape is not taken seriously, as a crime.

Neither are women, as people.

Theres another thread here about it.
sorry didn't see it!

terrified for my children's future!

terrified for my children's future!
You arent the only one. I have 2 dds....

. I feel conviction rates would be higher if the onus if proof was reversed and the accused had to prove consent was given.

How can anyone prove this? Even if you can prove initial consent how do you prove that consent wasn't withdrawn at any point?

I agree with PP saying that clothing, previous history etc shouldn't be relevant.

I don't think removing the presumption of innocence is something that anyone should be supporting.

This issue is that I cant think of any other crime (esp. violent crime) in which a defence of "they let me" works without scrutiny. Yes, men and women have consensual sex. But people also get in mutual boxing matches, give gifts and lend their car to people, it doesn't often work as a defence to crime. It's the attitude of all, that women are inherently crafty, scheming liars, which needs to change.

You could, however, have specially trained courts with three judges rather than a jury, a presumption that sex requires enthusiastic consent at all times, criminalize punters and not workers so they can at least get the violent johns for something, assume drunk/unconscious women don't consent, don't take the BDSM defence unless it's actually proved and a raft of other things.

Agreed Decomposing

The whole thing is so grim though the shit men get away with

MrsTerryPratchett

But how can anyone prove that enthusiastic consent was given and given throughout?

In many cases surely it's her word against his? And then I can see where reasonable doubt comes in.

The only thing I've learned from this is to try to get fitter and kick like hell (which I did second rape). It won't help you in some cases (e.g. being drugged - first rape) but it can help to take some fitness classes and to know that if you're lying down, your legs are your greatest weapon.

Some women will argue that we shouldn't need to kick, but, sometimes, you might just have to. Aim for the balls btw.

User10fuckingmillion

No argument there. I do wonder how it can be improved without risking the concept of fair trial/right to defend yourself.

I think PPs are right in that steps are taken elsewhere in the process.

Because it stops some of the utterly repugnant defenses currently being used. A recording isn't good enough. Not having actually spoken to the unconscious drunk women doesn't count. Fell over penis first FFS. It wouldn't solve every conviction but it would work on the most egregiously offensive cases. The ones where it just looks like women are in a constant state of consenting to everyone unless otherwise proveable.

It isn’t rape convictions that have dropped to 1.7%...

“Figures released last week show that only 1.7 per cent of reported rapes were prosecuted in 2018, and 40 per cent of cases were closed with the marker “evidential difficulties – victim does not support action”.”

Which if anything is even worse.

Of the 1.7% that go to court, fuck all are prosecuted.
It's not reporting.
It's the CPS not taking on the cases.

AuldJosey do you mean fuck all are convicted?

I'd love to know what the CPS has as a test for proceeding with a case.

Ye, that's what I mean - isn't it the same thing?

These statistics are exactly why I have never reported the rapes I went through to the police. Ive had a fair bit of counselling including a session about reporting and what exactly happens and how long it can take to investigate and be brought to trial (and the likelihood of that happening). I decided I couldn’t go through all that and focusing on my recovery through counselling was the way to go. I don’t regret it at all. But it makes me angry that essentially what really put me off was the feeling that I was on trial, not the perpetrator.

I was a juror on a rape trial. It was a date rape type scenario. The experience was really grim and helped me understand why conviction rates are so low. My heart broke for the victim, it just felt like the whole thing was rigged against her and it clearly took so much courage for her to give evidence.

Sex without consent cannot be prosecuted without a confession, so it's just not illegal.

With a confession it is also the case. I have a confession from the person who raped me. I was told (by a woman detective) that I needed to accept that boundaries had changed with 50 shades of grey, that because he stopped eventually that there was no issue. She even said "Come on now love it was only like seconds not hours we're talking here." I also had to tell a whole waiting room in the police station what happened....no side room for giving details in my town with is disgusting.

^^ That's the issue really isn't it.

It's no good to keep coming up with all the old tripe and lies about how hard it is to convict. The point is no one tries. The point is that you are ignored. The point is that police men assuming you are lying. The point is that no one gives a flying shit what violence men perpetuate, because it is fully acceptable and even gives them a status boost.

The problem is not evidence, so to keep going on about how hard it is to secure evidence is just ignoring the problem. The problem is male violence is normalised and acceptable, and women are expected to put up with shit. If men got the shit that we had to deal with regularly, it would be called war.

I still don't understand what proof of consent looks like.

I can also see how if the complainant refuses to support the case then the case can't proceed.

I can see how the system can change in order to support complainants so that more are willing to report and go to trial.