Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sad and horrified that rape convictions have dropped to 1.7%

279 replies

darkriver19886 · 30/04/2019 14:01

I am utterly horrified. This article came up on my newsfeed and I am shocked that it has dropped so low and it's likely it will be dropped even further with the move to take victims phones.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-victims-phones-police-investigation-disclosure-forms-cps-a8888376.html?fbclid=IwAR00s8kr5yRHXzqN1xQqeoL95A6u1VYidBaPV-T0RPAe8sclst-b6b5aiFk

OP posts:
Myworstnightmare123 · 01/05/2019 22:03

Oh FFS....
My post was answering your question as to whether a post by Assasinated was directed at you. Which it was. And she also confirmed that for you.

Nicknacky · 01/05/2019 22:04

Myworst And that wasn’t clear. You quoted me and asked a question hence why I asked for clarification. You never mentioned any other poster.

Myworstnightmare123 · 01/05/2019 22:08

Let it go. It really doesn't matter

Nicknacky · 01/05/2019 22:11

Errr ok. Strange.

OccasionalKite · 02/05/2019 00:24

The MRAs are supporting the idea of placing microchips into all women and girls:
Microchips, physically implanted into women and girls (and not men and boys) that record women's location, body processes, pulse, temperature etc,

Just in case a man gets accused of rape.

Yeah.

Repulsive.

SinkGirl · 02/05/2019 00:26

Not RTFT, but it’s not convictions. It’s fucking prosecutions. 1.7% are prosecuted. Convictions are lower.

We mean nothing. It’s sickening.

HelenaDove · 02/05/2019 01:05

Do MRAs think they are in a dystopian drama?

Oakenbeach · 02/05/2019 06:56

The MRAs are supporting the idea of placing microchips into all women and girls:

MRA? Wtaf? It was only an idea, admittedly a bit bizarre and sci-fi, whose purpose would be to make rapes far more difficult to commit with impunity, and to empower women as a result.... The information from any implant would only be available to others if a woman chose to make it so - such as in the case of a rape - the woman would be in control. I’m absolutely not advocating sharing all data, all the time!

Only a dystopian MRA world would want to prevent something that could make all the difference to women getting their rapist get convicted!

Besides, it wouldn’t just be for women and girls... men and boys could have this too in the (admittedly less likely) case of them being raped.

Oakenbeach · 02/05/2019 07:03

The MRAs are supporting the idea of placing microchips into all women and girls: Microchips, physically implanted into women and girls (and not men and boys) that record women's location, body processes, pulse, temperature etc, Just in case a man gets accused of rape

Why the fuck would a MRA want this? Men are already getting away with rape - they don’t have even to be too concerned about accusations. How could it possibly be in a rapists’ interest to promote something that would help prove his guilt?!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 02/05/2019 07:09

I think the figures are particularly low in the U.K.

Does any other country manage this better?

I have three DDs and I think these are sad times. I will have to raise them that if they place themselves anywhere with a man that sex could happen, if it does happen without them wanting it, the law doesn’t apply. Because that is where we now are

An after date coffee at his place now means you consent to sex. Even if you film the take. Even if you are killed.

This is so bloody depressing.

AngeloMysterioso · 02/05/2019 07:14

Some women orgasm during rape you know.

Imagine that coming up in court in the event of this microchip-whatever thing happening

It’s a fucking terrible idea.

SinkGirl · 02/05/2019 07:19

We still don’t have a system that understands consent and the nuances of being a victim of this kind of crime - and we are supposed to hand over physical data to demonstrate whether or not we mentally didn’t want sex? Brilliant. Just fucking brilliant.

Some people really don’t get it do they? A 1.7% prosecution rate (not conviction) means rape may as well be legal. And this phone thing? Essentially if you’ve ever flirted with someone who goes on to rape you, they can do whatever they want to you with impunity. If you’ve ever googled BDSM, forget it. Ever sent a sext, even to someone else? Forget it. Ever had a conversation with even a former partner about role play? Forget it.

What the fuck is this, seriously?

Oakenbeach · 02/05/2019 07:20

Some women orgasm during rape you know

Well it may not be able to be used in that instance.... but that particular women probably wouldn't be volunteering her biometrics! As I have said repeatedly, it would be voluntary. She’d be in no worse state than she would have been without the implant.

Your logic seems to be that because it couldn’t help everyone (and I don’t know the stats but orgasm during rape must be very rare), it mustn’t be allowed to help anyone....

Lifeover · 02/05/2019 07:24

In all honesty it’s not just rape convictions that are becoming so low, if you pull up the crime map for our area you see probably about 1% of reported crimes being prosecuted. The country is becoming lawless, people know they can get away with what they want. We need masses of money pouring into law and order in a multi agency approach.to stop pussy footing round political correctness, very early and decisive intervention with families unable to cope.

We need to prosecute parents who have kids repeatedly offending. We need to bring kids up to know to obey rules.

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/05/2019 07:29

Can we all stop engaging with the bizarre misogynist sci fi nonsense?

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/05/2019 07:32

"We need masses of money pouring into law and order in a multi agency approach"

I agree with this, but election after election people vote for parties that do exactly the opposite of this. We are being failed by our politicians, who basically never attempt to implement their supposed policies even if they do promise to increase spending.

Oakenbeach · 02/05/2019 07:43

@AssassinatedBeauty

There is currently no way to bring rapes to justice that aren’t violent or by a stranger (and even then it’s extremely difficult). Many of you appear determined to descend ever deeper into a vortex of despair on this, but I won’t. My idea may be crazy, unworkable and technologically impossible the moment, but its whole point is to end the injustice of rape being a crime of impunity, and completely the opposite of misogyny!

My friend was mugged a couple of years back. 20+’years ago the mugger would never have been caught. A combination of CCTV and ANPR - an ‘intrusive’ technological development not dreamt of a generation back - meant the mugger was caught. He’s now behind bars (not for long enough).

SinkGirl · 02/05/2019 08:04

As I have said repeatedly, it would be voluntary

What, like handing over your phone is voluntary? Pull the other one

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 02/05/2019 08:18

Can we all stop engaging with the bizarre misogynist sci fi nonsense?

Will do

I know I haven't yet...but give it time!

MenuPlant · 02/05/2019 11:43

Has anyone seen minority report? That could work!

Re why would mra want it
To control women and reduce their independence, imagine knowing you are fitted with a chip tracking your every move

Too many situations where wouldn't work. Drunk / drugged. In a coma(see recent case). How does this work on babies and children? Women who are dying? Women in a war zone who will likely have all sorts of stress hormones whizzing around? What about grooming, its her 'boyfriend' and she loves him and will have sex with people he says if makes him happy. What about women who don't want to report rape but are being raped. Married women. Prostitutes. Hopeful actresses meeting the famous director. Won't their readings throw off the baseline, as the baseline for consensual readings includes loads of rape? How will you ethically cibrate it, esp for kids? What about women who consent to a point and he goes past that and they freeze, what do those readings look like? How do you account for consensual bdsm?

What readings are you even talking about that show reaction to rape as opposed to risky consensual sex eg outdoors? Fear of getting caught, pain when your bum hits a stinging nettle.

And etc and so on.

Yes let's not engage with Mr minority report its an idea which is miles in the future and even then would be impossible to make it work.

There are other reasons men would like to chip women like pets though we all can imagine what they would do with the info etc

AuldJosey · 04/05/2019 00:56

@SinkGirl
I think a lot of posters on this thread seem to be either juveniles/male or mentally challenged.

Suggesting a fitbit pmsl. Ye - that will prove conclusively that I was raped. IDIOT. IN CAPITALS FOR A REASON.
Your heart rate and adrenaline kicks in when you're under attack.

A fucking fitbit isn't going to tell whether you were having sex and in love or being raped YOU DOPEY TWAT!!!

I've tried to keep my mouth shut because I literally couldn't understand how people engaged with them! It's like WTAF???????

Nothing fucking surprises me anymore.

Did ya EVER hear such shite? Microchip women lol. You actually couldn't make it up!

AuldJosey · 04/05/2019 01:00

Mr. Fitbit believes that if were all chipped then none of us would be reporting rape. Because it wouldn't happen. Because it doesn't happen. We're just making it all up lol.

Oaten idiot. I suggest you go to visit the rapists in prison. Just go to visit them. See what you think. Bear in mind that they are about the .5% of rapists who actually end up in prison - despite it being a custodial sort of crime.

Why do I have to read this shite?

Unapologetically · 04/05/2019 02:42

WARNING - VERY TRIGGERING CONTENT

I was raped and sexually assaulted in central London on a night out in October 2015. The attack was carried out by a complete stranger. I was on a first date with another man I'd met on Tinder, I have no idea if I went off with the second man willingly or not as either I'd consumed vast amounts of alcohol or my drink had been spiked by someone at some point in the evening. I do remember after 3 drinks events became completely blank until I found myself starting to come around at approximately 3am in the morning completely naked on the wooden floor of a house (i somehow located my phone, I tried to call someone for help, they didn't answer and after that I seemed to lose the ability to)

The next thing I was aware of was a stranger on top of me at points, behind me at other points as I kept slipping in and out of conciousness, I tried my best to say "no" and resist, but he didn't react or care. I was in a lot of pain and wanted it to stop, but I couldn't physically stop him due to the influence of whatever substance i was under. The next moment i was aware of anything was stumbling down the street towards London Victoria and somehow catching a train home at 6am.

At 9am i was at my desk and carried on as normal. I even (stupidly, unthinkingly) messages some friends regarding the night before, I carried on as before laughing, joking, talking about sex and ridiculously trivial things, you never know how you are going to react and I was firmly in denial/ yet to process mattes. after work i broke down and confided to a friend what had happened, at this point I did not want to take it any further as I completely blamed myself for what had occured, I couldn't believe I'd been stupid enough to have put myself in that position, id recently separated from my husband and had 3 children - I felt horrified that I could have let something like this happen to me when they rely on me so much.

I examined my body and saw I'd been left black and blue in many places, my genitals and anus were so badly bruised in places i struggled to sit down, I felt like I'd been repeatedly chewed and bitten. Teeth marks on my cheeks confirmed this to me. I had a large friction burn on my temple that no amount of foundation could cover and I struggled to explain it to my colleagues.

3 days after the attack i broke down at work, my managers could not have been more helpful, They took me to the local A&E department where the staff were incredible. The police were called and after i explained events i was gently told there would be nothing further they could do at this point as to them it sounded like a very grey area and events wouldn't stand up in court. The female police officer was visibly disappointed at this, but the decision had come from the METs Sapphire Unit and she couldn't overrule it. There would be no need for them to take my clothes away that I wore that night, no need for an examination at a specialist centre and I was advised to go home, rest, and chalk it up to a bad experience and to try and get on with my life.

The hospital staff did offer to examine me, but at that point i was tired, distressed and I didn't want anyone touching me, so a member of my companies HR staff took me home. I was signed off until I felt strong enough to return to work.

Two weeks later i was clearing out my phone as the memory was starting to get full when I decided to look in my deleted items. I felt instantly sick when I saw with horror there was a video of me in the deleted folder. I'm naked, visibly unconscious and the camera zoomed in to examine my genitals, then the camera turned to man operating it and caught the face of the man who attacked me. I'll never understand why he thought this was a good idea, or what purpose it served, I had one of those phones which you can unlock with my finger print and I had a flashback of him trying my different fingers while I was still out of it, but the sensation was very real, it also triggered a lot of other memories that instantly made me physically sick. I called the police back and they finally took my allegation seriously. I handed over my clothes i wore that night (mercifully not thrown away) and my phone was taken away as evidence. I was extensively interviewed and assigned a SOIT officer and detective for my case from the Sapphire team in the MET.

By the time January 2016 came around i received a phone call from my SOIT officer to inform me my attacker had been found and at this point in time he was in prison for another crime. I cried and cried from releif, I was warned however that he was due for release in August, but if the CPS did decide to prosecute there was a good chance he'd be held on remand due to the nature of the allegations and he was a high flight risk for leaving the country.

The CPS did decide to prosecute and on the strength of the evidence presented he was charged with 4 counts of rape and 2 counts of sexual assault. The trial took place in January 2017. Despite the best efforts of the prosecution he was found not guilty on 5 charges and on the final charge (the video documented sexual assault) the Jury were hung. I found the trial just as traumatic if not more so than the actual attack itself. The Defence made out as if I'd imagined the whole thing, apparently the defendant found me attractive which is why he had agreed to "consensual sex" with me, the way I spoke in my messages in the day after the attack apparently offended the defence lawyers "Catholic school boy morals" and apparently i was too professional, too functional, too put together and too self assured to possibly be a rape victim.

My warnings are this:

Even video evidence where the woman is unconscious cannot secure a conviction under our current system. The recent revelation of the brave lady in Scotland who made an audio recording of her attack really resonated with me.

Your text messages on your phone can and will be used against you in a court of law. You do not know how you will react in the following days/ weeks and if you try to carry on a veneer of normality or blame yourself like I did, it will be damming to your case.

As much as you may not want to, get your injuries documented. I wish I had, photographs were taken two weeks after when I re-reported, but these did not show the extent of the damage that had been visibly there.

I honestly have no idea to this day how I behaved with this man in the lead up to my attack, I have no comprehension of if I was flirty, all over him, consensual and intimate, not a clue. What I do know is he had absolutely no right to do what he did to me, and the justice system is currently firmly on the side of the perpetrator and not the victim. Their rights are paramount, ours are dust.

I also have much to say with regard to the current support of rape victims in this country, but I really have been writing this out for hours and it's incredibly late. I feel better for it though. Apart from social media, I haven't written about this publicly, in full, so far. Thank you for reading and please excuse any typos, grammar errors etc, I'm writing on a tablet that's a bit temperamental.

HelenaDove · 04/05/2019 02:52

GOOD GOD i really dont know what else to say.

AuldJosey · 04/05/2019 03:32

@Unapologetically I totally get you! Right down to not believing yourself and 'just go to work'.

When nobody else believes you, it's natural I think to question yourself.
My rapist is serving 9 years. Not for my rape. But because less than a month later he raped a 15 year old. THEN the police called me. A bit late eh boys?

I couldn't cope with the police either because they kept asking me how I got there - I have absolutely zero memory - NONE. I knew I'd have been ripped apart at trial with the suggestion that I had gone willingly, but I know myself and I know that couldn't have happened. I won't say here why that couldn't have happened, but just take it from me, it wouldn't have.

Ok, I'll try to make an analogy. Say the perpetrator is what looks like a very old well dressed man. Knowing me, I would not have been afraid of such a person - they would not seem in any way threatening to me. I might also (don't remember anything) have allowed said person to buy and spike a drink. Again, given an elderly well dressed man and a drunker young woman (I presume unconscious in some form or other) get into a taxi - nothing remarkable really?

I end up in Essex and wake up being jumped on (i.e. forcefully held down and penetrated) by said man.

Everything I owned was stolen from me so I had no phone, no idea what time it was. Working back in time it would have been 10am the next day that I woke up. I know I was drugged. I'm well used to alcohol (unfortunately) and I've never gone out for 12 hours and funnily enough ended up in a house where I was being held down and raped.

I knew from my defences too, though I wasn't terribly strong, that I wasn't able to fight. I tried to move legs and they just wouldn't.