Or is the person we're buying a house from totally fucking batshit?

[sootspritez]

I'm gonna start by saying I know I'm not being unreasonable, however I am inexperienced, so looking for some guidance on where you think things have gone wrong and what I can now do to placate this nutjob vendor. NC as outing. Will try not to drip feed.

Dh and I are first time buyers. Visited a house. Loved it. Offered full asking price. All fine up until this point.

3 weeks after offer is accepted the survey happens. This is when things start going south.

Let's say that house was on market for 150k. Survey came back and said the house was only work 137k due to needing new Windows, chimney work, roof tiles, etc and the bank believe this was all the house was worth.

Survey cost in excess of £500 so fairly decent survey for a reasonable priced house. Put it to the agents that unfortunately this is now all we can offer as the mortgage lenders I.e. bank believe it's all the house is worth due to work needing doing. Fully prepared to be told tough and that they're holding out for the full price as I know they rejected a previous offer for being slightly below asking.

Vendor agrees to sell for 137k immediately. Phew... Or so we thought.

From this point on the following has happened via estate agents -

• vendor has cancelled 3 second viewings because they were inconvenient though she initially agreed

• she has denied entrance to the property for a contractor to come out with us to estimate how much work needs doing

• pointlessly got in touch to specify that now that they had gone below asking that all appliances wouldn't be included (I didn't want her appliances)

• asked EA to ask us TWICE if we would be willing to offer them more money despite accepting price given by mortgage lender

• when we have asked for another viewing she has proposed just insane times '20 mins at 6pm on the last Sunday of the month' '30 mins at 10.30am exactly 4 weeks on friday' despite us offering to be entirely flexible where possible (I.e. evenings and weekends at her convenience but would be willing to book an hour off work if she can guarantee the time). She says she cannot guarantee time as she works fill time and has 2 boys who play football until 8pm every single night and all day every weekend and they are her priority.

She has told the EA that she thinks we are inflexible and both the EA and the branch manager have apologised to us for her behaviour but obviously won't challenge her on it.

Am I right in thinking she's pissed off about lowering the price and just doesn't wanna sell her house?!

I know it's hard when you fall in love with a house, but I'd probably withdraw my offer at this point. Make it clear that unless she can accommodate a second viewing and allow you to measure up, get a builder to quote on the work, the offer is off the table and you will be searching for another property. Been in this situation before with a seller who was difficult from the start and after months of nothing progressing it turned out they hadn't even looked for somewhere to move to, and they then "decided to stay". We'd lost hundreds in solicitors fees by this point. We also had another seller turn sour when she wrote on the fixtures and fittings forms prices for all the lights, curtains, wardrobes, etc none of which we wanted as we already had our own (which were alot nicer anyway!) so we declined t all, and she went crazy telling us we had to have it all as she wasn't going to pay someone to dismantle the furniture/remove the lights. It was really awkward, and if she'd had just said she was leaving it, we would have happily just got rid of it ourselves, but she was asking £100 a light fitting, £100 for a pair of UNLINED curtains?? She ended up pulling out of her ongoing sale and saying she was going to look for something else, knowing damn well she wasn't, and forcing us to pull out so we lost the fees (a grand this time). I'd seriously avoid any seller who shows even an ounce of "batshit" as they're likely to cause further issues as the move progresses. Plus your mortgage company is right to say don't progress without having the house looked at... that sounds like alot of work that needs doing, you don't want to end up in a money pit.

If you can't have a second viewing and you really want the house are you able to put a specific clause into the buying contract to reference your concerns?

Or let the seller know why you want a second viewing and if you can't have a second viewing by a certain date then you will pull out.
Under your circumstances I would want a second viewing.
Good luck!

All those saying you need to do a second viewing before making an offer maybe live somewhere with a slower housing market than we bought in. We had a viewing on the same day and 6 others and had to offer that day to have any hope of being successful. No second viewing until after our offer was agreed.

I’d always let someone come around to measure up or get quotes for work needed, it’s common courtesy and we have nothing to hide.

Ring estate agent and express concerns and check she is serious.

I would be concerned that she has caused some kind of damage in the house and doesn't want you to know. Or it could be she just wants to be difficult. Or it could be that she just wants to be in peace. I wouldn't buy it. I would be too worried that they would pull out at the last minute or that I would turn up to find a kitchen ripped out or something.

I had a thread a couple of months ago where I asked wiuldnit be reasonable to ask for access (so really a viewing) after having an offer accepted and the virtually unanimous answer was yes, that's fine Mumsnet can't make its mind up sometimes!

For those who are in Scotland though it might be worth knowing - apparently it's part of the standard terms now that you are allowed access for a visit to measure etc post offer.

I think she’s worried you’ll find something else and reduce the offer further, we bought somewhere from a seemingly batshit vendor who did this and there was stuff we didn’t find until we were in. I’d give them an ultimatum and keep looking in the meantime.

*would it

Need an edit button!

“WellErrr

Basically she removed the chimney breast in the downstairs but left it upstairs and they can't tell if she's put in an RSJ to keep the building secure and stop the floor buckling. She hasn't volunteered that info.

I think you can save yourself the hassle here.
I’d put money on there being no RSJ. Her builder husband has more than likely done it himself.

I’d walk away.”

It seems overwhelmingly likely there IS a RSJ. Why would a builder, who knows better than anyone, risk not having one? It’s no big deal, not hugely expensive or complex. I don’t know why people are assuming there isn’t one.

@foxmuffin no one is saying she should just buy regardless of her concerns. They’re saying she should pull out.

When we put an offer on our house , we did a further 3 viewings I don't get whats wrong with having another viewing

Just pick the other time slots she has given you , it's a long process anyway

Average salary in London is £34K
Average salary across UK is £22K

The point is, you're meant to do second viewings before putting in an offer, that is true. However, because of what the survey threw up, you are understandably cautious. What you should have done though, is asked to view with a builder before going ahead with the lower offer. In all honesty in your position I would be concerned about why she is being so obstructive and what she might be trying to cover up, and walk away.

I’m worried though that you seem to need a structural survey re the chimney breast. How can someone find out if there is an RSJ without taking the building apart?

We had this when selling a house - the surveyor had to come and drill holes where two rooms had been knocked together, because it had been done in the late '60s when building regulations were different. It had no cracks or anything and was probably over-engineered, so more likely to stay up than the rest of the house. Fortunately, the sale went through but we would have been none too happy if they had bottled out leaving us with holes in the décor *

It does seem that a lot of things that were normal in the past are being over-scrutinised in the context of modern building regulations.

• Since they had started sneakily stockpiling garden stuff round the back, thinking the house was empty and unwatched and not surrounded by attentive relatives we thought it less likely they would pull out but you just don't know.

Second viewings if needed are usually before you put in and offer and definitely before surveys etc.

We were also advised by solicitor not to allow buyers in to measure up etc, once sold stc, as by that point they had agreed in principle to buy based on the evidence they had. Our buyers had to wait until after exchange to come back to view / measure up again.

Bearing in mind that buying a house is subject to caveat emptor (buyer beware), this: You don’t have a right to the answers you want. is utter nonsense.

Buyers do have the right to question things and find out the coatings and reasonable sellers will allow this to happen.

However, I agree that if the seller won't allow you to investigate then you do need to walk away. (I've not read all of the thread, so this may be a 'cancel the cheque'-type post!)

I bought my last house 5 years ago. The market was so fast moving we were expected to view and put in a best offer with usually 4/5 others. I managed to buy my house because I viewed it on 27th December when everyone else was busy. And it was back on the market after a failed first sale. We didn’t have a second viewing (and it was a real fixer upper) it’s just the way it goes some times

The seller was probably in a chain already by this point expecting to have 13k more disposable income

Boo fucking hoo! She has over valued her property. That's her problem, not the buyers. You wouldn't buy a second hand car for more than its market value just because the seller needs the extra to fund their dream car!

The house was not worth 13k extra. She shouldn't have pinned her hopes on her next property being funded by ripping other people off

I've bought two houses and BOTH times I've gone for another viewing after having an offer accepted. I've never had any issues in doing so either.

You don't go to an initial viewing and start taking measurements, checking what size sofa you need etc. you do that once you've decided that the house is suitable and you're willing to spend a considerable amount of money.

From her agreeing to drop the price so quickly, I'd bet that she knew full well the issues it has.

Nowordforfluffy you don’t have a right to ANSWERS at all. You are perfectly within your rights to ASK, of course.

Vendors can and often do say no.

It does sound odd to me. Our survey has also raised some quite expensive concerns but we've had no trouble going back in so far. There will need to be further visits from specialists because I'm not prepared to shell out over £200k on a property without first knowing the extent of the issues.

Whilst it is good that your vendor has agreed the price, perhaps your solicitor could have a word with theirs about access if the EA isn't prepared to do so and you can't make any of her specific slots?

Also no reason at all why you can't have a second viewing. We had 4 on our current house, (2 before offer and 2 after as parents wanted to see it and we needed to measure the doorway). And our buyers came twice after offer also, they wanted to measure up the windows to know if their curtains would fit, and to check if their pans would work on our induction hob! I don't understand why anyone would refuse to let the people buying their home get stuff ready and prepared for it. If she would just let the estate agent in while she was out like any sane person, it wouldn't even affect her life. She sounds nuts op and you are 100% nbu

We are in the process of buying a house and our solicitor recommended a pre exchange viewing to check nothing has changed between the initial viewing and now. Is this not standard? I'd worry what the seller had to hide if they refused.

“You don't go to an initial viewing and start taking measurements, checking what size sofa you need etc. hmm you do that once you've decided that the house is suitable and you're willing to spend a considerable amount of money. “

Well no, you do that after you’ve bought the house -if the owner doesn’t want to let you back in.

I'd withdraw. The route to exchange is going to be painful with this vendor. We had a third viewing a week before exchange on our last house (we'd already had two before making our offer). This was on the advice of our estate agent. We used it to measure up for curtains so we knew which ones to bring and which ones to leave.

She doesn't want you in there as she knows things have been botched.

Once you get in there to ascertain the structural quotes etc she knows you will pull out.

It's probably happened before.

I smell a rat

And the pp complaining that their purchaser was knocking on the door minutes after completion demanding access, well of course they were. You had completed. You had their money, it was THEIR house.