Or is the person we're buying a house from totally fucking batshit?

[sootspritez]

I'm gonna start by saying I know I'm not being unreasonable, however I am inexperienced, so looking for some guidance on where you think things have gone wrong and what I can now do to placate this nutjob vendor. NC as outing. Will try not to drip feed.

Dh and I are first time buyers. Visited a house. Loved it. Offered full asking price. All fine up until this point.

3 weeks after offer is accepted the survey happens. This is when things start going south.

Let's say that house was on market for 150k. Survey came back and said the house was only work 137k due to needing new Windows, chimney work, roof tiles, etc and the bank believe this was all the house was worth.

Survey cost in excess of £500 so fairly decent survey for a reasonable priced house. Put it to the agents that unfortunately this is now all we can offer as the mortgage lenders I.e. bank believe it's all the house is worth due to work needing doing. Fully prepared to be told tough and that they're holding out for the full price as I know they rejected a previous offer for being slightly below asking.

Vendor agrees to sell for 137k immediately. Phew... Or so we thought.

From this point on the following has happened via estate agents -

• vendor has cancelled 3 second viewings because they were inconvenient though she initially agreed

• she has denied entrance to the property for a contractor to come out with us to estimate how much work needs doing

• pointlessly got in touch to specify that now that they had gone below asking that all appliances wouldn't be included (I didn't want her appliances)

• asked EA to ask us TWICE if we would be willing to offer them more money despite accepting price given by mortgage lender

• when we have asked for another viewing she has proposed just insane times '20 mins at 6pm on the last Sunday of the month' '30 mins at 10.30am exactly 4 weeks on friday' despite us offering to be entirely flexible where possible (I.e. evenings and weekends at her convenience but would be willing to book an hour off work if she can guarantee the time). She says she cannot guarantee time as she works fill time and has 2 boys who play football until 8pm every single night and all day every weekend and they are her priority.

She has told the EA that she thinks we are inflexible and both the EA and the branch manager have apologised to us for her behaviour but obviously won't challenge her on it.

Am I right in thinking she's pissed off about lowering the price and just doesn't wanna sell her house?!

Bloody hell!

YANBU!

I saw my house twice more after making an offer last year. No problem at all with vendor/EA. Vendor didn't have to be there.

Considering the issues your survey threw up I would be concerned something else has gone wrong with house and no way would I exchange or proceed without seeing it again.

I wouldn't touch this house with a barge pole. You have been advised by a solicitor not to proceed until you can clarify issues about the structure of the house.

Your vendor is being so obstructive that there must be something iffy she doesn't want you to find out. My guess is the "builder " husband has been doing work on the house and cutting corners.

If an RSJ has been put in there should be a certificate from the council signing it off.

Seriously OP I would walk away. There will be other houses and other more helpful vendors.

We are seeing this with a neighbour at the moment. Told us it was up for sale and when asked for a price he then stated he wasn't actively marketing it, and ended the 1 1/2 page email saying he was going down the subdivision route instead.

Fast forward to recent times, his Wife gets ahold of city people looking for a patch of their own, they talk ''city'' prices for the property until they dig a little bit deeper and find some of the information they have been given by neighbour isn't 100% so want and need a valuation. Neighbour doesn't want them to get a valuation.

Neighbours wife wants to sell, neighbour clearly doesn't and isn't doing anything to assist potential purchasers. Maybe this is your vendors' story too OP?

We took our builder with us on second viewing and then made an offer. That was on house we didn't buy in the end (removing asbestos too expensive). We made the offer on our current house which was accepted, and then calculated building costs etc on the survey and dimensions etc without revisiting. I'm pkeased so say my calculations were pretty accurate!

I would either withdraw the offer, or just go ahead and estimate costs on the strength of the survey. You can give the survey to your chosen builder and ask him to do it for you.

We viewed our house two or three times after our offer was accepted so that we could measure up for furniture and check the boundaries as advised by solicitor.

It might not be a legal requirement but surely it's in the sellers interest not to piss off someone who could pull out at any point?

This whole thing seems bizarre. Why would they not want you to ensure you want the house? Validation of costs so you don’t pull out?

I truly don’t understand UK purchasing process. It sounds very different to Canadian. I have purchased to places here and it’s overall a very different process. There is no pulling out two days before without legal and financial ramifications.

Sounds like she a private owner and she needs to settle only on what she previously asked trying to either do more than break even or make a profit; in either case she is not willing to just recover the excessive expenses. See if there is a before and after of the building. You will know if it’s worth the other 15/20 grand. The point is in the end are you willing to play into her game to wear you down and do you really want it. Just remember everything happens for a reason. Karma if she is being unreasonable. But what you don’t want to do is buy a house over the assessed price and have to still fix things or do you?

Bought and sold several times and solicitors have always advised not to let a buyer in again until all obligatory paperwork completed and signed. Seller is not being unreasonable. Obviously trying to spin out the time in order to prevent you coming back and perhaps spotting something else you may question.

We viewed our house two or three times after our offer was accepted so that we could measure up for furniture and check the boundaries as advised by solicitor.

Measuring up for curtains etc - fine after exchange of contracts so that buyers can't nitpick about little things and try to change their offer.

Boundary checks - should all be done via solicitor.

The issues raised in the survey are significant and are cause for concern. Basically she removed the chimney breast in the downstairs but left it upstairs and they can't tell if she's put in an RSJ to keep the building secure and stop the floor buckling. She hasn't volunteered that info.

OK, so this isn't abotu measuring up for a kitchen.

You should have asked to do this before making the reduced second offer.

As you didn't, then you need to ascertain the seriousness of the things on the survey.

Her husband is a builder This worries me tbh. Hopefully he's a brilliant builder and does everything above board. But what if he's a cowboy / a crap builder? How many of the things on the survey are as a result of bodge jobs, potentially?

I doubt she removed the chimney breast - if he's the builder, he did it.

Did he put an RSJ in? Does he have any paperwork for this? (Should he?) If he didn't put in an RSJ and it needs one, that's a massive red flag. What other dodgy jobs might he have done?

Forget about measuring up for a kitchen etc. But do try to address the points on the survey. I'd be feeling very wary about this if it was me tbh.

It sounds like solictor is saying cannot move forward at the moment rather than pull out of the sale.

The survey has pointed out potential chimney issue. Quite rightly solicitor will be saying that prove required that there is a RSJ. Seller either has the paperwork or they don’t.

I bought a house from an architect who fancied himself a plumber and electrician and conservation expert.

I would never, ever buy from anyone in any construction related trade again.

Catchingbentcoppers Mon 29-Apr-19 19:58:43

Do many people saying that others are ridiculous/insane etc because they think that what happened when they bought a house is the only possible way it should happen.

No. In the case of the OP, they are saying this because they have a lot of common sense, in many cases born of experience.

The OP went in with her lower offer based only on what the mortgage lender said they would support. Not based on anything in the survey. Now she wants to go in again and the seller is not happy about it. Seller probably fears further reduction in the offer, a reasonable fear.

The seller should hopefully be able to provide documentation of issues in lieu of another attempt to see structural issues that have cropped up, if she really doesn't want to let the buyers in again. But that does not negate the point that the buyer was trigger happy.

She should have held her fire until she had the survey as well as the lender's feedback.

No harm done as buyer and seller alike can still walk.

Totally utterly normal to expect a second viewing.

I would be looking at other properties and while I’d be moving towards completion on this house, I would work on the assumption this sale may well fall through

Isn't there a disclosure agreement? If the seller is aware of a problem with the house, it must be disclosed?

There is a property Ombudsman site where you might get some answers. Which? has a special property booklet; there is a Homeowners Association with advice at about £46 a year sub and all sorts of info on google searches which might be able to give advice.

You could go to the Local Authority Buildings Department/Inspector and check whether the chimney was removed properly and the correct RSJ put in the right place.

Hi OP,

I was like you a few years ago now when trying to buy our first home. It really is stressful isn’t it? Especially when you are new the game and don’t know what is normal etc.

You have done all the right things so far. Ultimately, wanting to do more viewings with builders for costs etc is a good thing for your organization and peace of mind. If I was you, as the buyer, I would want to do the same.

However, as the seller (and you haven’t had experience of this side of house buying yet so I’m being frank) it is a massive PITA. Selling a house is nothing like buying. You have to get your house ‘ready’ clean, tidy, organized etc for viewings. Once you have accepted an offer, you don’t really want to be seeing your buyers until it’s all done and dusted. You have to go through all that again and then there is the potential stress of them changing their mind or negotiating over certain things. Most EA with advise the buyer against 2nd viewings.

Now that’s not to say that in some circumstances, buyers will be happy to oblige. I for one, was happy when buyers came back to measure for curtains or carpets or whatever. However, it was still a PITA and if I could have not had them visit again, I would have!
For eg, one home I sold was because U had 2 young children and no where near enough space. When we put the house for sale and had viewings, we put all the kids stuff out of sight so the house appeared spacious. When our buyers wanted to come back again, I couldn’t face doing all that again and left it all out. The buyers were genuinely shocked by how different it was and as they were expecting their first child and were planning to raise a family there, they could easily have realized the house wasn’t for them!

Also bear in mind that EA will be saying one thing to you and something completely different to the buyer. And remember that they are working, or at least getting paid by the buyer!

I do completely agree that it is ridiculous to decide on such a massive life changing event as buying a house on the basis of the 10 minute viewing. If I had spent longer looking at the house I mentioned above, I would probably not have bought it! This is the game of buying and selling.

My advise would be decide whether you want this house warts and all and either go ahead and buy it, or don’t. If it needs a lot of work as you suggest, I would be wary personally. If your mortgage is for the full value, so you have the money immediately to do things like windows etc?? How long do you see yourself in this house? All these questions will help you decide what to do.

As I’ve said, I have done a fair bit of buying and selling over the years and made mistakes along the way. It truly is stressful.

I don't think its normal to expect a second viewing after an offer is made, but YANBU to ask and seller is NBU to refuse. Neither you nor her are under any obligations to continue with the sale/purchase

OP walk away. Selling and buying a property is massively stressful. Have you put in the deposit? If not walk away. As it is you are already bot getting good vibes off the house if you are on Mumsnet! I dont think you are unreasonable and dont forget you are the one with power here to make this deal so IMO she should be accommodating towards you. I have let my sellers in to measure up etc. To me it is a sign that they are sincere in the purchase. Good luck. There will be a another house that you will love out there x

What pp are missing is that the mortgage company will have based their offer of finance on the condition of the property as is. Their surveyor will have seen the chimney issue and costed its effect on the value of the property.

Also bear in mind that EA will be saying one thing to you and something completely different to the buyer.

Yes, I agree with this. ime, estate agents will say anything to anyone and their one and only goal is to try and keep the wheels from falling off the sale. Any impression the OP has gained from the EA that 'everyone agrees the vendor is being massively unreasonable' is just the EA telling her what she wants to hear. Ironically, it sounds as though this is having the opposite effect of keeping the wheels on the sale, as the OP is now considering flouncing. That's why I think she needs to spoonfeed the EA a script they can use with the vendor, by admitting she should have taken a builder in to quote before she made the revised offer and reassuring everyone she's still committed to the purchase (even if she isn't).

We viewed the house we bought twice before putting in an offer. Had survey done, put in a new offer that was accepted. The seller agreed to us coming round with a builder to check out the more worrying things highlighted in the survey - I didn't like the man (and liked him even less after having to fix his crappy, dangerous DIY), don't think he was very keen on us either, but he didn't make things difficult.

She may be hedging her bets and hoping that she secures a higher offer than yours.
But additionally she might be worried that if you take builders round to estimate required works, that you will request a further drop in price, so she’s making excuses not to let you back in.

You should have asked for a second viewing BEFORE you made an offer.
Now you have made your offer you just shut up an wait.
Even I know this and I am not a property owner. Having said this, my elderly parents fell over backwards for their vendor and even dropped the price because Madame wanted a fucking Aga.
I just think it is YOU who is unreasonable and this should have been explained to you.Either you want the property or you don't.