Or is the person we're buying a house from totally fucking batshit?

[sootspritez]

I'm gonna start by saying I know I'm not being unreasonable, however I am inexperienced, so looking for some guidance on where you think things have gone wrong and what I can now do to placate this nutjob vendor. NC as outing. Will try not to drip feed.

Dh and I are first time buyers. Visited a house. Loved it. Offered full asking price. All fine up until this point.

3 weeks after offer is accepted the survey happens. This is when things start going south.

Let's say that house was on market for 150k. Survey came back and said the house was only work 137k due to needing new Windows, chimney work, roof tiles, etc and the bank believe this was all the house was worth.

Survey cost in excess of £500 so fairly decent survey for a reasonable priced house. Put it to the agents that unfortunately this is now all we can offer as the mortgage lenders I.e. bank believe it's all the house is worth due to work needing doing. Fully prepared to be told tough and that they're holding out for the full price as I know they rejected a previous offer for being slightly below asking.

Vendor agrees to sell for 137k immediately. Phew... Or so we thought.

From this point on the following has happened via estate agents -

• vendor has cancelled 3 second viewings because they were inconvenient though she initially agreed

• she has denied entrance to the property for a contractor to come out with us to estimate how much work needs doing

• pointlessly got in touch to specify that now that they had gone below asking that all appliances wouldn't be included (I didn't want her appliances)

• asked EA to ask us TWICE if we would be willing to offer them more money despite accepting price given by mortgage lender

• when we have asked for another viewing she has proposed just insane times '20 mins at 6pm on the last Sunday of the month' '30 mins at 10.30am exactly 4 weeks on friday' despite us offering to be entirely flexible where possible (I.e. evenings and weekends at her convenience but would be willing to book an hour off work if she can guarantee the time). She says she cannot guarantee time as she works fill time and has 2 boys who play football until 8pm every single night and all day every weekend and they are her priority.

She has told the EA that she thinks we are inflexible and both the EA and the branch manager have apologised to us for her behaviour but obviously won't challenge her on it.

Am I right in thinking she's pissed off about lowering the price and just doesn't wanna sell her house?!

Walk away.

Yes you were naive in changing your offer before further investigation. But it's not a mistake you should pay for to the tune of 137k

You are not legally bound to see this through to the bitter end.

Given what the survey has thrown up, the vendor should be doing everything they can to put your mind at rest. But the not knowing if a RSJ has been put in (even though her DH is a builder) is very concerning, not allowing people in to establish whether the work is done properly, is another warning.

this property is more hassle then it is worth and could cost you a fortune in the future. Walk away now.

Learn from your mistake, do plenty of viewing before offering, and if a survey comes back with concerns get to the bottom of them before renegotiating, Or if you think the investigation work is going to be too costly for you then pull put there and then.

Also viewings after an offer is accepted is normal, we've allowed them, and we've been allowed them.

@Passthecherrycoke but there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't allow another viewing after agreeing the price, unless you have something to hide. The people buying the house are parting with a huge amount of money for you to be able to move on.

I even think with our current house we went twice. The owners weren't living in it but were more than happy to come let us in and we found out really good information from them that wasn't in the advertisement or able to glean from the first viewing with estate agent.

Sure there is Sherlock. You want to relax and enjoy your home without strangers in it. You don’t want builders poking about potentially damaging things. As others have said, you don’t want someone coming back to find things they can use to reduce the offer AGAIN.

Last one from me. In our last house the chimney breast had been removed by a previous owner and Ethan’s chimney not supported AT ALL. The house was basically a death trap, given that it was directly about the bed in the master bedroom. In our case it was possible to shore up the chimney in the attic using wooden beams so, while not particularly cheap, it wasn't the huge, nasty, disruptive job we were worried it might be.

You paid £500 for a survey, OP? That sounds like a valuation survey, or at best a homebuyers. Personally, I would have followed up with a full survey BEFORE asking for any price drop. Spend the additional money, then negotiated.
You can also ask your solicitor to have the seller pay for indemnity insurance for any alterations for which they don’t have paperwork for. We did this when we moved as we had no building regs paperwork for chimney breast removal and extension that happened around 15 years before we bought our old house. It cost us £125.
To be honest, in the situation you describe, I’m a bit surprised you haven’t pulled out - or the seller hasn’t.

*the, no idea where Ethan's came from.

We had a very similar experience when a valuation came back low, he accepted but demanded we complete within 4 weeks (just wasn't possible due to conveyancing etc) and demanded extra cash to pay the bills after his tenants left prior to us being legal owners (this was a second home for him). He needed to sell both his houses but was pissed off his tenants managed to move on so quickly after being told to move as it left him with the bills. He was very bitter about the fact it was down valued but not enough to pull out and try with someone else, it was a miserable process tbh but we got there. But as is your case, frustratingly, the EAs wouldn't manage his expectations and tell him he was being unreasonable. My solicitor was livid.

Op how much was your survey? Pls

Bought 4 houses in my life, never had a 2nd viewing on any of them and never been asked for one on the houses I was selling.

you don’t have a right to ANSWERS at all. You are perfectly within your rights to ASK, of course.

Vendors can and often do say no.

If that happens then the seller is clearly hiding something and the buyer should walk away.

If you ask questions through solicitors and get a refusal to answer back, both solicitors would raise eyebrows at this. It's a contract negotiation until such time as exchange takes place and part of the negotiation is that the buyer is entitled to find out whatever they need to so as to ensure they're not buying a money pit.

It is totally unreasonable to not allow buyers to make sure the property is sound. I'd recommend all buyers walk away where there's a refusal to allow them to do so.

Totally agree re viewing after youve had offer accepted. Wait till you own the house. Sounds like shes cross re the reduced price. If you want this house just let the solictitors deal with it and exchange. If not pull out and look for another. Abitof both so yabu and yanbu.

If she is going through shitty divorce and facing financial hardship she probly doesn't want to see your eager excited penny pinching faces poking round her once happy home
Yes she is bit bat shit but you would be too. Your drop in price while totally fair has probably meant she will loose her new home
Bide your time leave her alone for now or walk away

I agree she is being awkward but I don’t blame her. I’d be pissed off if I was hoping to get £150,000 and was only getting £137,000. That being said I think you are being a little unreasonable expecting access now, as PP have said the time for a second viewing is before you have made the offer not after the survey. It isn’t unheard of for vendors to give access for builders/architects after the offer and before completion but it isn’t routine either. It’s entirely down to vendor good will and she probably doesn’t have much of that atm.

You hold the cards here, remember.

A couple of years ago we went through a nightmare move. The vendors were awful, always threatening to move out, but we were desperate to move and had to grin and bear it. How desperate are you to move there? If not then I would look around and tell the EA that you are not confident in the sale because of the vendors' behaviour.

Even during the week of exchange and completition they were threatening to pull out on us. They left just 2 days before completion and exchange. We couldn't even book the removal vans. I vowed then I would never buy from PITA vendors again (and we knew they were a PITA from the start to be fair, whereas our buyer was lovely).

However, we did get a second viewing after the offer was made. Likewise, we let our buyer come round to measure up.
I think this needs to be arranged if they want you to move forward.

*threatening to pull out!

Not necessarily. Nowordforfluffy.

As above, many people have had work down to their house in the distant past which they don’t have any certification for because building regs weren’t required back then, or they didn’t do the work themselves. Or they’ve lost guarentees for windows/ boilers etc. All common. It’s also common to tell the buyer you don’t know/ can’t find it and are not going out your way to get things reinspected/ signed off etc because why should you? You’re the one selling, why sink anymore money into the property for someone else’s benefit? Unless you have a great buyer or you’re struggling to sell it’s not worth the hassle.

You just leave it with the buyer to decide whether they still want to proceed

Why did you drop the offer to £137 due to the survey, but not have the chimney issue resolved prior? It was all in the same document. Also. You said your husband is a builder. I'd have thought he'd have a very good idea how much it would cost to fix?

To me it sounds like you are scoping out the possibility of a further price reduction depending on the outcome of the chimney work. I'd not be keen if I was the seller.

“It is totally unreasonable to not allow buyers to make sure the property is sound. I'd recommend all buyers walk away where there's a refusal to allow them to do so.”

That’s what her professional survey is for. There will always be some things they can’t access/ answer which will be left as questions on the survey. There will always be advice about what “needs to be done” it’s up to the buyer what they want to do with this information based on the circumstances. If the vendor doesn’t want to get involved then you’re stuck pulling out.

Pull out and chalk it down to experience, your dealings with her would have only become worse.

The issues raised in the survey are significant and are cause for concern. Basically she removed the chimney breast in the downstairs but left it upstairs and they can't tell if she's put in an RSJ to keep the building secure and stop the floor buckling. She hasn't volunteered that info.

This sort of work should have been signed off by the building regs team at your local council. We had structural work done on our house, including putting in an RSJ, and someone from the building regulations team had to come round and see it in place (before re-plastering) so they could sign it off. This information should be held by your local council (assuming the work wasn't done decades ago) and your solicitor should be able to find out if the paperwork exists.

As for second viewings, when we sold our house I would have said no to builders etc until after exchange at the very least. I also would never have bought a house without doing a second viewing before offer, and would pay for a full structural survey. If you can't get paperwork to prove the RSJ is in place, I would walk away from this process and approach new house viewings with a different mindset.

I would pull out

Second viewings after the offer has been accepted are unusual. They happen occasionally but are not the norm. In terms of bank survey valuations, the new valuation may or may not be correct. The vendor and her agents should have arranged a counter valuation to show the banking they did not agree. Banks are currently being very conservative with valuations due to Brexit uncertainty. Suspect the agent maybe stirring.

OP I think you're getting a really raw deal. I know plenty of people who go round to measure up after offer accepted. Very strange to suggest otherwise. In your shoes I'd pull out. Something isn't quite right.

We did 2 viewings then offered. After offer was accepted, we arranged to go to measure for furniture. The vendor was fine with this and said we could go as many times as needed. We were the same with our buyer. Visiting to measure for furniture just underlines the buyers intent and is reassuring to the vendor imo. As is visiting with trades people.

I'm not sure some people here understand what down valuation means by some of the snide comments that have been made, the op isn't "penny pinching" she has said she is not able to proceed at the agreed price because her mortgage company will not let her borrow that much as they do not feel it is of that value. She is a FTB with presumably a higher LTV mortgage need which means there is very little wriggle room to offer more even if you may want to, the seller can pull out and hope another seller will either throw up a different survey result or have more cash to negotiate the price but chances are she could end up back in the same position. Not to mention not wanting to ignore a valuation either.