Or is the person we're buying a house from totally fucking batshit?

[sootspritez]

I'm gonna start by saying I know I'm not being unreasonable, however I am inexperienced, so looking for some guidance on where you think things have gone wrong and what I can now do to placate this nutjob vendor. NC as outing. Will try not to drip feed.

Dh and I are first time buyers. Visited a house. Loved it. Offered full asking price. All fine up until this point.

3 weeks after offer is accepted the survey happens. This is when things start going south.

Let's say that house was on market for 150k. Survey came back and said the house was only work 137k due to needing new Windows, chimney work, roof tiles, etc and the bank believe this was all the house was worth.

Survey cost in excess of £500 so fairly decent survey for a reasonable priced house. Put it to the agents that unfortunately this is now all we can offer as the mortgage lenders I.e. bank believe it's all the house is worth due to work needing doing. Fully prepared to be told tough and that they're holding out for the full price as I know they rejected a previous offer for being slightly below asking.

Vendor agrees to sell for 137k immediately. Phew... Or so we thought.

From this point on the following has happened via estate agents -

• vendor has cancelled 3 second viewings because they were inconvenient though she initially agreed

• she has denied entrance to the property for a contractor to come out with us to estimate how much work needs doing

• pointlessly got in touch to specify that now that they had gone below asking that all appliances wouldn't be included (I didn't want her appliances)

• asked EA to ask us TWICE if we would be willing to offer them more money despite accepting price given by mortgage lender

• when we have asked for another viewing she has proposed just insane times '20 mins at 6pm on the last Sunday of the month' '30 mins at 10.30am exactly 4 weeks on friday' despite us offering to be entirely flexible where possible (I.e. evenings and weekends at her convenience but would be willing to book an hour off work if she can guarantee the time). She says she cannot guarantee time as she works fill time and has 2 boys who play football until 8pm every single night and all day every weekend and they are her priority.

She has told the EA that she thinks we are inflexible and both the EA and the branch manager have apologised to us for her behaviour but obviously won't challenge her on it.

Am I right in thinking she's pissed off about lowering the price and just doesn't wanna sell her house?!

You made an offer, the inspection completed, offer modified and accepted. You are now expected to buy the house.

Further viewings are not standard. Any access you get before you sign the contract is a favor. Since she is selling for less than she hoped, she is unlikely to be in the mood to do you a favor. Plus it is strange to ask for access to the property again. The time for additional viewings was before you made an offer.

Really surprised that people think it's odd that you would want to follow up on issues raised in a survey that you've understandably had done after your offer is accepted. Very normal to offer subject to survey.

She might not like the survey results but it's been done independently and I'd certainly want to check out any issues identified. If she won't let you have access, I would walk. Too important not to get this right.

Our buyers asked for a second viewing after putting an offer in.

It was annoying but I agreed then they wanted a third viewing which I also agreed to.

Think your vendors might be worried you’ll lower asking price further. Which you may depending on what the builder says. I’d tell estate agent you’ll pull out if vendor doesn’t agree tbh. House sounds like it may have more issues.

@sootspritez

I haven’t read all the pp. But as someone who has bought and sold multiple properties and works in the industry I can tell you it is absolutely normal to have multiple viewings, especially given the circumstances here. It’s not always necessary in most cases but even then if buyers want to its their prerogative. If a vendor was this obstructive with me I’d be tempted to walk away.

We sold a property recently and the buyer must have viewed half a dozen times. They didn’t even have a survey. They kept saying they wanted to keep looking so they could decide what furniture to buy. They were pretty annoying tbh but I just accommodated then to get the sale through. Why wouldn’t you??

When issues come back with the survey, you are supposed to follow up on those issues before making another offer.

Op - it sounds like there are significant structural concerns. I would not proceed without resolving those, but you are going to need help from your experts to make sure you don’t end up in breech of contract in the process.

@Purpleartichoke
This is negotiations BEFORE contract. OP cannot be in breach.

Having skimmed the rest of the replies I cannot believe the majority of mumsnet would make what is usually the biggest purchase of their lives with massive question marks hanging over the whole thing. Its absolutely essential OP that you ascertain the cost of any remedial works and satisfy yourself as to the state and condition of the property BEFORE contract.

What if you buy it and you can’t afford the work? How is that preferable to saving face?

Some terrible advice on this thread. Would you drive a car that needed work away from a garage on the understanding you’d check it all out later? Of course not!

@Foxmuffin I wouldn’t allow multiple viewings again to that extent. I once allowed it, they never put in an offer and once I pestered the EA they went and did their background and this was something she was known for doing.

OP - the chimney breast is very concerning and if they have done this without the correct support, what else is hidden?

I think walk away as this house is giving off a bad "vibe", with the survey being negative and now the owners not being friendly.

I think the survey was money well spent

@Faithless12

Fine, don’t. But nobody is compelled to buy your property.

Generally if a vendor wants a sale to proceed they have to be accommodating.

Here, the vendor will struggle to get the asking price from anyone as every mortgage lender will down value the property as OPs have. Their only real option is to try and fetch a better price from a cash buyer. Which narrows their potential market and makes the property less attractive.

I’ve bought several properties in the last two years and would not proceed if I wasn’t able to price up what could be substantial costs. How on earth could you budget?

Sorry but firstly you really should have made your offer subject to survey!

You have been into View then made an offer- for what she wanted.

Then sent in your surveyors

Then dropped your price

The seller was probably in a chain already by this point expecting to have 13k more disposable income.

Then you want to go round and measure up with a builder looking for more issues.

I would have told you where to go. Measure up once in, appliances all come with next day delivery.

No house has no issues and this is part of being a home owner. If the property market crashes the same house could be worth 85k in 5 years. Then 13k is nothing anyway.

Second viewing after agreeing a price doesn’t happen as standard unless in friendly terms and it like can I measure my couch ect. Never let me bring in a builder.

You have to gamble when house buying.

Yes you have to drop serious cash in 7 minutes, I have just sold my house and the couple that bought it - 1: husband has never seen as in Afghanistan
2: Wife joked that she’d spent longer trying on new jeans
3: it’s how it works I got 15 offers literally in 2 days- sat/Sun viewings

If you want something without issue buy a new build - then chase up the snagging list for 5 years

Really surprised that people think it's odd that you would want to follow up on issues raised in a survey that you've understandably had done after your offer is accepted. Very normal to offer subject to survey.

But OP has had the survey and had her reduced offer, based on the survey, accepted. Now OP wants to take a builder round before, I can completely understand why the vendor would imagine there’s another offer drop coming next and withdraw goodwill.

The time to re-negotiate due to survey results is after the survey and once you’ve established what the work will cost.

So no, the vendor doesn’t sound batshit from the information given. I can totally understand her actions. She has no legal obligation to accommodate 2nd visits, and visits with contractors, yet she has offered some at her convenience. I could easily see why the vendor might think that the buyer is messing her around, just as I can see why the buyer thinks the vendor is hiding something. Communication has clearly been pretty inefficient here, not at all helped by the EA.

You are now expected to buy the house.

You don't have to buy the house op. You haven't signed the contract yet, and you can (and should, imo) pull out now.

OP you are getting a hard time on here when you have been up front about being a first time buyer. It's so easy to get caught up and giddy with that first rush when house viewing, especially when 'open days' and back to back viewings whip up excitement. A 5 page pile on of 'you should have had a second viewing' before. I bet you have said this to yourself at least 10 times a day. I have always gone by, first viewing with the heart - see if you like it can imagine you living there. Second with the head - looking at practicalities and third with your builder.

I am so glad I have not had to misfortune to buy from some of the mumsnetters on here - who the hell wouldn't let you back in? And the couple of sneering posters moaning about buyers wanting to show their parents - and no I have never shown my parents around a house but come on ........

I don't think you have been unreasonable, naïve maybe but you will have learnt by this. I would pull out of this purchase, too many red flags. Interesting view from the poster who said she would never buy from a builder due to the lack of paperwork - may bank that one for the future.

I also think she is holding out for another buyer/one of them doesn't want to sell. It will continue to be difficult with this woman. Get out now. We had this with my MIL and she eventually decided at the last minute to pull out of the sale, despite an offer accepted by DH's friend.

The amount of house sales that fell through in 2018 is staggering. So you are right to go and look at other houses. These things happen within a complicated system.

Good luck OP.

I think she is worried you will come and try and knock more money off the price.

Walk away. If there’s a question about the structural integrity of the house and she’s not forthcoming I think I even would run away, and fast.

Under the circumstances you describe, with your serious concerns about the structure of the building, I wouldn't invest any more in this and would withdraw from your purchase and look elsewhere. Learn from this what to look for next time before putting in an offer! Although, if you had put in your first offer subject to survey, I would have thought that if the survey threw up some areas of concern, you could have then asked for another viewing before confirming your lower offer?

When we bought our current house only my DD and I viewed it. As it was in a popular area DH put in an offer straight away which was accepted. We then were not allowed to view it again so he didn't see inside it until the day we moved in!

The crux of this is that you should have done further due diligence post survey prior to reducing and agreeing the price.

This.

Basically she removed the chimney breast in the downstairs but left it upstairs and they can't tell if she's put in an RSJ to keep the building secure and stop the floor buckling. She hasn't volunteered that info.

I think you can save yourself the hassle here.
I’d put money on there being no RSJ. Her builder husband has more than likely done it himself.

I’d walk away.

Take solicitor's advice, withdraw offer & look elsewhere.

They aren't that batshit, though. I've heard stories far worse.

If there's no RSJ, will you still want the house based on the builders worst case cost?

I'm not sure if it's been said but where so am (South East, London commuter belt) it's usual for houses to sell for 5-10% more than the mortgage valuation.

OP, you sound like you're getting cold feet and are now not sure if you want to buy the house at all- the vendor will know that and be annoyed you're holding up the chain with your faffing.

There is always some risk in buying a property- there's no trial period- so go with your gut about whether you see this as your home.

Call her bluff OP. Ring the estate agent on Monday and tell them you’re pulling out and to send you details of other houses. If she wants to keep you as a buyer this then puts the ball in her court and she’ll have to agree to a second viewing to try and get you back as a buyer. If she lets you pull out, I think that says it all, the whole thing would have been likely to fall through. Don’t think with your heart (difficult as this is to do, I know) think with your head, and play it cool.

I think you need to see things from her point of view, it reads as you are a pain and very obviously first time buyers.

FYI just because your lender has down valued the property does not mean all lenders will do the same. Some surveyors are cautious in a market that is no longer growing. Banks want to ensure they are able to recoup all of their funds and fast. Another surveyor may value differently, each bank is different and some surveyors are more cautious than others. So no it doesn't follow through that because you can not raise the funds all will not be able to.She could just have easily said no not dropping and forced you to find more deposit or put it back on the market.

To have had an open house day to sell it, she clearly does not like viewings and or has a high demand property. For her to get two offers on the same day at the moment is unusual. She's told you she has a busy life and yet you want to go and measure and trapse a builder around. Most do this before offering, as someone else said it sounds like you are now lining up to find more issues and offer less again.

From your points on the survey and cost you have just had a home buyers survey, nothing special just enough for the mortgage company to assess. The comments about RSJs being present are because you would not be able to see whether there is an RSJ or not. It is structural and hidden by plaster / plasterboard. Taking a builder around to look will not enable you to see or know whether it is there. They will not be able to see it without investigative break outs.

If it isn't there it really isn't a big deal, you either remove the chimneys above and the stack or put one in. The house will not fall down I the meantime. It's easy to fix of it even needs fixing. Standard surveyors comments.

In my experience all properties that are not brand new attract these sorts of comments on a survey. Windows well you can see those and would have thought about whether you want to replace them or not, the EA valuing would have been able to take those into account in the price, roof tiles if they have slipped or are missing no big deal to get them replaced. Your survey hasn't pulled up anything major from what you have pasted into here.

Sorry but you come across as a pain, someone who doesn't understand the process, jumped in with both feet panic offering on a property and I would predict you will pull out now you are in the cold light or day she probably has done the same.

OP - I’m on your side. I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask for a 2nd viewing. I’ve sold many times and always accommodated. Sounds like they have something to hide and I’d be walking away. Better houses will come along.