Or is the person we're buying a house from totally fucking batshit?

[sootspritez]

I'm gonna start by saying I know I'm not being unreasonable, however I am inexperienced, so looking for some guidance on where you think things have gone wrong and what I can now do to placate this nutjob vendor. NC as outing. Will try not to drip feed.

Dh and I are first time buyers. Visited a house. Loved it. Offered full asking price. All fine up until this point.

3 weeks after offer is accepted the survey happens. This is when things start going south.

Let's say that house was on market for 150k. Survey came back and said the house was only work 137k due to needing new Windows, chimney work, roof tiles, etc and the bank believe this was all the house was worth.

Survey cost in excess of £500 so fairly decent survey for a reasonable priced house. Put it to the agents that unfortunately this is now all we can offer as the mortgage lenders I.e. bank believe it's all the house is worth due to work needing doing. Fully prepared to be told tough and that they're holding out for the full price as I know they rejected a previous offer for being slightly below asking.

Vendor agrees to sell for 137k immediately. Phew... Or so we thought.

From this point on the following has happened via estate agents -

• vendor has cancelled 3 second viewings because they were inconvenient though she initially agreed

• she has denied entrance to the property for a contractor to come out with us to estimate how much work needs doing

• pointlessly got in touch to specify that now that they had gone below asking that all appliances wouldn't be included (I didn't want her appliances)

• asked EA to ask us TWICE if we would be willing to offer them more money despite accepting price given by mortgage lender

• when we have asked for another viewing she has proposed just insane times '20 mins at 6pm on the last Sunday of the month' '30 mins at 10.30am exactly 4 weeks on friday' despite us offering to be entirely flexible where possible (I.e. evenings and weekends at her convenience but would be willing to book an hour off work if she can guarantee the time). She says she cannot guarantee time as she works fill time and has 2 boys who play football until 8pm every single night and all day every weekend and they are her priority.

She has told the EA that she thinks we are inflexible and both the EA and the branch manager have apologised to us for her behaviour but obviously won't challenge her on it.

Am I right in thinking she's pissed off about lowering the price and just doesn't wanna sell her house?!

Place marking to find out if there is something wrong with the house

I think YABU, OP, and have misunderstood how house buying works. Once you've made an offer and had it accepted, it's not at all normal to start demanding more viewings. As a seller I wouldn't be allowing you in, especially if I'd already given you a significant price drop. Also, it sounds like the vendor isn't actually blocking you, just giving you viewing times that suit her busy family life (in her own home) and you are being picky about them and wanting her basically to open up her home to you at your convenience. The whole point of getting the survey done is to tell you if the house needs any work done, what it needs etc. If you haven't got that from your survey, you need to take that up with the surveyor. It's really odd that you dropped your offer and THEN started wanting to look into the survey more. Surely you do that before you revise your offer? And why did you offer so much over what other houses in the area were going for anyway? I feel like you've rushed into all of this without really knowing what you're doing.

Ive bought and sold several properties and it can bring out the crazy in people. However, I think this is where your inexperience, or lack of guidance from the EA may have stuffed it for you.

The crux of this is that you should have done further due diligence post survey prior to reducing and agreeing the price.

I guess you need to examine what your motivation for the builders and measuring up are. Are you simply doing it so you know what your extra costs are but are 100% committed or have you offered to take it if the market whilst you work all that out? Is your offer of 137 firm irrespective of what else is thrown up or are you potentially thinking you may need to reduce your offer further or even pull out based on their findings?

If you are still doing your diligence about buying after you have agreed a price then I can see her point of view.

If you simply want to get in and are 100% committed irrespective then let her know. But don't expect her to have to let you in. She doesn't have to.

This might just be one of those learning curve experiences where you jumped the gun and muddied the process. You may need to just walk away or decide that you love it enough to take it on regardless.

They are the only 2 options within your control now.

The survey on this house was under the asking price but he had made loads of errors on the survey. He compared the price to the house next door which sold that has a completely different floor plan and size.
It sounds like the vendor is hacked off with you. You have to try to keep good will and communication open and this has broken down.
If I was her I may want to start again with a different buyer. I got pissed off with our buyers during our sale and put house back on market. It can happen.

A lot of the things on the survey couldn't be ascertained due to access issues or lack of knowledge about works done to the property and as such could be significant structural.issues.

OP this is what solicitors are for! Your solicitor contacts their solicitor to get the missing documentation or information.

You do have a solicitor?!

We’ve bought a house recently after quite a long period of house hunting and at some point we were in similar position. We put an offer and did survey which highlighted an issue the cost of which could vary a lot. Further investigation would be intrusive so it was obvious that our vendor wouldn’t like it. And vendor didn’t want to lower the price. So we walked away. It was very difficult decision for me as it was lovely house but I wanted to avoid uncertainty and big risks.
You can’t change the system. You were offered chance to view ( before you offered). You did negotiating after the survey and your vendor lowered the price. That’s it . Now it’s time to decide are you buying this house or not.

I don’t think she is happy with the lower price.

It would probably have been better to get builder (if she allowed) in before renegotiating price. I assume that you would be asking for a quote for an RSJ to be put in rather than exploring if there is one. You mentioned access issues. Was this because the surveyor was not give access or it was not practical? For example they were only going on what they could see and not removing plaster etc.

I don’t think it is unusual to want to visit property again. When I was selling a property the buyer did this. They wanted to measure things and we discussed them buying furniture. I also had a second visit when I was buying a property. The seller helped me measure windows. Yes I could have done this after I purchased the property but sometimes you want to make plans before you move in.

If it was just that she is not keen for a second visit I would think that maybe she thinks you are going to try to drive price down. To me the red flag is being asked if you would pay more. I would say it is better to back out now than rather than spending money on solicitor and searches etc.

It’s a lot of money if you have doubts and think the fact you are looking elsewhere says something.

There are so many red flags with this house and the seller, OP. Even the bank and the estate agents agree with you. I would seriously walk away.

You made an offer on a house you only spent 7 minutes looking round?! That has blown my overthinking mind .

Sounds like the seller is potentially hiding something, or is having second thoughts about agreeing to your lower asking price. If they had 10 viewings in one day then I'm suprised they're not holding out for the full asking price tbh.

Walk away. It's a house. There'll be others. You should be calling the shots here. If you really want it say unless you can view within next seven days your offer is withdrawn and then walk.

"Survey cost in excess of £500 so fairly decent survey for a reasonable priced house."

...was that a full structural survey, cos £500 seems pretty cheap for one.

Oh and I'd never buy a house off a builder, unless he's reputable and you know him. If they aren't forthcoming with the RSJ info you could be buying a hole heap,of trouble!

OP as an aside - if they have removed the chimney breast without support to the stack on the roof, I would be very careful with proceeding. If the chimney is shared with a neighbour or the house is listed then planning permission is required. Building control should have signed off the removal if it was done after a certain date and you can actually let the solicitor deal with it as the onus is on the vendor to provide the appropriate evidence of this.

I wouldn't have agreed the new price until you knew exactly how much work was involved and costs because if your offer changes again you will probably need to go back to the bank to let them know of changes to the purchase price if it affects your LTV. If you walk away and do this again, try to renegotiate once if at all for this reason - unless something really significant comes to light during the conveyancing it's unusual to open negotiations again.

And I think it's completely reasonable to ask for further viewings, but I would have waited until just before exchange to make sure there were no last minute surprises. A lot of house buying is scary because you have no idea what you're in for - you drop hundreds of thousands of pounds on limited info. It's a crap system but it is what it is. Protect yourself - and don't let the vendor do the work! You're better off getting quotes and then making sure it's done to your standard. I wouldn't trust anyone who didn't do it correctly the first time round.

Good luck

A lot of the things on the survey couldn't be ascertained due to access issues or lack of knowledge about works done to the property and as such could be significant structural issues.

OP this is what solicitors are for! Your solicitor contacts their solicitor to get the missing documentation or information

Also those carrying out the survey always add caveats about what they couldn't see. If there are real concerns then you need a full structual survey, but this would be done before you revise the offer.

A second viewing is done prior to making an offer. Once you have an offer accepted the house owner can reasonable expect to not have you in their house again until the keys are handed over.

I’m really surprised avoid most of these responses. We’ve bought and sold a reasonable number of houses and it has always been normal to go back and check things out (whether things that came back in survey or measuring where furniture might go)

OP I’d pull out. Def sounds like they are hiding something. You might find just threatening that changes their mind

OP you are not being unreasonable! Mumsnet is a weird place, people on here are particularly sensitive to house prices going down & that is the situation we're in now. Started in London & the south & will ripple out in time.

Based on what you've said about your vendor I'd pull out & swallow the costs of the survey. She sounds like a nightmare & the whole process will be difficult. She overpriced originally so is probably one of those who thinks their house is super special. She'll be seething & bitter. Run!

The chimney breast sounds worrying and sounds like she’s being deliberately evasive. I think you are being very sensible to insist on getting a builder to quote before proceeding. What if it’s really bad and will cost £40-50k to fix!! What if their work has damaged next doors house? The other option is to only proceed with an indemnity clause written in. Your solicitor can advise you on that. We had to have one in similar circumstances. It’s an insurance. The seller paid £50 for it. It protects you against any potential damage arising from unchecked work that they have done on the house. In your situation it makes sense to protect yourself as much as possible.

After reading your follow up posts I am actually confused as to why you made an offer on the house without doing a further viewing, most house sales are subject to a building/pest inspection so the reduced offer is no surprise but you can't just throw in an offer because you are trying to beat everyone else in then complain because despite agreeing to buy the house you want to then go and do further research on it that should have been done prior to the offer being put in.

As PP have said I wouldn't buy a house ever based on one viewing, there are lots of things you don't notice first time round the house so you need to go back again prior to even considering putting in an offer but that is on you and not the seller.

I understand all those saying that op should have had a second viewing prior to making an offer, but the survey they had done flagged up some issues, and it is not unreasonable for op to want to look over those things to see if it is worth proceeding. None of us would buy a home where we were advised to knock $13k off the asking prince for essential works, without clarifying how quickly those works needed to be done.

OP, I'd pull out. She is either hiding something (which doesn't surprise me at all, considering she won't answer an important question regarding something structural) or doesn't want to sell, so I think you are wasting your time.

@corythatwas She didn't know all this before making an offer! They made an offer, had a survey done which showed it was only worth X not Y and have since asked to view the property again, here is where the vendor is being awkward.

Where I live, you certainly wouldn’t let people in to look around or take measurements after the offer has been accepted. A real headache for your house insurance if something goes wrong, and there’s no upside for the vendor.

I’ve done some pretty crazy things to get all the value I can from viewings (usually two) if I know I’m going to put in an offer (or bid at auction, which is big here). I take loads of sneaky pics, quickly measure important walls, etc. Get my DH to chat to the EA, and race around getting the info I need.

If a vendor is particularly nice, or well-disposed towards you, here they might give you a handful of answers/measurements via the EA. Clearly your vendor is resentful of the end figure, and a very busy woman. She’s taking the position that law and the culture says is fine. Not extra nice, but fine.

Next house purchase, don’t count on other people to solve your problems. Ball’s in your court.

I wouldn’t make an offer on a house that I’ve only seen for a few minutes. I’d make damn sure the offer I make is worth it, after a survey and a good second viewing.

Put this down to experience. If you love it, have it, but it doesn’t sound like you want it enough.

The other option is to only proceed with an indemnity clause written in. Your solicitor can advise you on that. We had to have one in similar circumstances. It’s an insurance. The seller paid £50 for it. It protects you against any potential damage arising from unchecked work that they have done on the house

Indemnity insurance doesn't usually cover this, it normally covers the risk of the council taking enforcement action and the cost of having to put things right.

@sootspritez you are haggling and have already successfully haggled. If I was her I wouldn’t be letting you back in as if seems as soon as you have access you drop the offer. If I was her I would be looking for another buyer as you currently seem unreasonable. She’s given you times that work for her, go then or just pull out. It seems you are having the fear.

Could you have made your offer contingent on (a) result of survey and (b) getting a mortgage that relies on result of survey?

Seller might have been happier to admit you more than once in this situation.

Maybe this isn't possible in the UK. It's the norm in my area to make a contingent offer.

You could have found out if she was telling you the truth about the prior offer too, where I am.

I would drop out, OP, and learn from your mistakes this first time. You were very rash.

Definitely go to see the next house more than once. Book at least a half hour slot each time. Bring a builder with you if you can find one and pay for his time.