To wonder what happens when your boyfriend asks your father for your hand...

[PumpkinLatteMyArse]

And then he says no?

Do adults just not get married then?

I think people are taking this way too seriously. It’s not sexist, It’s just an old tradition and a show of respect to your future father in law. Anyone who says they wouldn’t marry someone who asked their father is an idiot and would be doing the person a favour by not marrying them..

Pa1oma if it works for you, it works for you. But as I said, your assumption that working women all have men who dont do anything around the house and that working hasnt helped women is incorrect.

Namenic The fact that low paid jobs tend to be ones that women do is a feminist issue. Using childcare isnt a problem for feminists, because not using childcare doesnt fix that problem. In fact, for my son, I purposely sought childcare that included had men working in it too and his primary school has 50% Male teachers. Which is rare. Although me and exh only used childcare for a couple of months. My dad owned a business with exh. My dad wanted to retire which meant exh had to work more hours. My dad wanted to retire to spend more time with his grandkids, so dad took in some childcare of ds, to enable exh to work more hours. We were lucky that dad did that. Not because dad is a man, because anyone who gets easy childcare is lucky. Dad was still paid though from the business.

I am interested in the theory that low paid domestic work, done by females enables women to work. Surely its enabling more men to work? By saying domestic work is enabling women to work, means the default is that the man works and the woman stays at home.

If low paid domestic work, is required for both parents to work. Then low paid domestic work is enabling both men and women to work?

Yes - you’re right that domestic labour enables men and women to work. Grandparents are definitely fantastic in that respect and forming a good bond may also help grandparent as they get older and start to need help.

Also would people be ok with male nanny with young kids? I know my cousin had a male childminder but kids were 7 and 11.

I would be happy with a Male nanny.

I would complete the same checks as I would with a female nanny. Use a reputable agency, confirm references etc. I suspect the wages for care work would go up if more men worked in that job role.

Yes, my dad has an amazing bond with my ds. Ds is now 8 and it's amazing to watch them together. Dad was very hands on from him being a baby and would often appear and just sit while ds slept on him.

Surprisingly, you don’t see men clamouring for the right to do minimum wage caring jobs.......

No you dont. But it's not just the obvious low wages.

As a pp said, gender stereotypes often dont work for men either. Her dp has suffered lots because people dont see his role as his partners carer as 'manly enough'.

And it's another reason why sticking to sexist traditions, isnt good for society as a whole. Gender stereotypes arent good for women or men.

No you dont. But it's not just the obvious low wages

Why are so many women willing to work for low wages but men are not? Are men more greedy or materialistic ?

To get back to the OP’s topic...sorry, I don’t know how to link articles, but I just googled and there are articles suggesting between 60-70% of men still ask for the DF’s (and/or DM’s) blessing before proposing. That’s in the UK and I suspect it’s higher in other countries. So not as bizarre a custom as some would suggest on here.

Why are so many women willing to work for low wages but men are not? Are men more greedy or materialistic ?

Lots of reasons. Society still conditions men and women into roles. Conditions women into be natural carers and mens worth being in being manly and providing.

Men also generally believe they are worth more in the workplace. My company has 2 female VPs and one is doing alot of work and reduced the gender pay gap. One of highlights has been that men offered promotions are more likely to turn down the first salary increase offer, believing the company will come back with a better offer women snap their hands off.

Also wome are still more likely to give up work or be the ones working round the kids. I am in my late 30s and my mum (and school friends) didnt really think women needed to build a career as it was a given they would give it up anyway. So they never looked about simply getting a job.

Theres lots and lots if reasons.

That’s in the UK and I suspect it’s higher in other countries. So not as bizarre a custom as some would suggest on here.

Can you link it? Or just cut and paste the link?

I dont think it is hugely bizarre. However, it depends on your circle. Also depends on the article and study. What groups they have asked, what culture or background they have asked and how many people.

Here’s a section (sorry dodgy phone). It’s from something called “Wedding Wire” -

Ready to pop the question? Here's what you need to know about asking for your partner's hand in marriage.

Asking your partner’s parents for their child’s hand in marriage is a time-honored tradition but many couples wonder if it’s still relevant today. While it might feel outdated in modern culture, there are many ways to embrace this tradition on your own terms. Wedding officiant and relationship expert, Leslie Ann Johnson of Positively Charmed weighed in on five key questions to consider before the big conversation that will set your proposal off on the right foot.

Here’s everything you need to know about asking for your partner’s hand in marriage.

Is this tradition still relevant?

Speaking with your soon-to-be fiancé(e)’s parents and asking for your partner’s hand in marriage is a tradition that can be both relevant and a defining moment in your relationship. It serves as a powerful opportunity of emotionally relating on a deeply personal level with the people who are about to become a new and important part of your family circle.

If you’re a man asking a woman’s parents for her hand in marriage, the whole tradition might feel inherently sexist—and in some ways it is. But think of it as starting things off on the right foot with your future spouse’s parents. Asking for “permission” honors the parenthood of the one you love and will be a sweet memory for your partner’s loved ones.

Do I have to ask for permission?

While 70 percent of proposers still ask for their partner’s hand in marriage, many couples take a more contemporary approach to the traditional conversation. If you’re not asking for permission, you might consider what your personal intention is; why do you want to have this conversation and what’s the message you wish to convey? If your decision to speak with parents before proposing is simply made out of honor and respect, then you can approach the meeting with language that conveys that message”

I’m not sure if an article from a wedding magazine is proof of anything. Do you have a more reliable source ?

“Why are so many women willing to work for low wages but men are not?”

Often to facilitate the high wage earning men.

🥇for Bertrand

That’s just one bit I came across.

Yes, I think it does depend on demographic and people’s background, etc. There are many cultures within Britain where we’re possibly only one generation away from systems such as the one which existed in MIL’s country of origin where the parents would go with the potential groom to visit various eligible families and the whole thing was much more a family decision. Men’s role in the family is to provide and protect and their honour and status depend on this. DH is Lebanese /Iranian so its not surprising if he has absorbed some level of different expectations growing up.

All kinds of people have all sorts of perspectives on things. I have a friend who is Pakistani who has just arranged her daughter’s wedding to a man who lives in Bahrain. The daughter is 24, has an MBA and has been working for a year or so, but she’s off to live in Bahrain after the wedding this summer. She has only met him once. It’s not what I’d ever do personally, but what can you say? I’ve known the bride since she was 15 and she says this is what she wants.

I have a friend who has an arranged marriage (Sikh) and he was physically abusuve to her, but her family would not accept this for two years. In the end, they did support her divorcing him, but it still took them almost a decade to accept that she wanted to marry another man who was Hindu. I have another friend frim an Indian background whose DH is Cypriot and his family wouldn’t accept her for about ten years either - the MIL used to send her racist abuse and even a couple of death threats. Yet somehow they got married and now all get in really well since their DC came along.

I have another friend who has an arranged marriage where the DH is the one whose career has taken a backseat because she is doing vital work in neo-natal research. They have emigrated for her career.

Also, people can call me a “facilitator of a high earning man” and I won’t deny it. It’s not a crime actually, and sometimes it makes economic and practical sense in the context of particular families. Some people on here may not like it, but it is what it is. I’m not going to add another level of unnecessary complication and stress into our lives, to appease the MN vision of equal families or whatever.

All the 'I wouldn't marry him based on that' blah blah 😂😂🤦🏼‍♀️

Jesus guys chill out it's a blessing doesn't matter if they say yes or no it's your decision in the end your the one getting married

Not something worth ending your relationship over feminism at its finest 'we aren't possessions' no one said you were honey 🤷🏼‍♀️

But think of it as starting things off on the right foot with your future spouse’s parents. Asking for “permission” honors the parenthood of the one you love and will be a sweet memory for your partner’s loved ones.

Yeah I am not willing to believe the survey is based on fact, given they say stuff like this. The fact that is sexist, is acknowledged and then glossed over.

Who says it will be a sweet moment? It's only a sweet moment if the parents involved think its important. If they do, they like have the sexist mental furniture.

Pa1oma it may make economic sense for your family. However, on a personal level, women (even married) are at economic risk. But as I said. Its swings and roundabouts. Theirs advantage to both and if you know the risks and are happy to accept the consquences if the marriage or relationship goes wrong, that's up to you.

If my friend was marry g her daughter off to someone she had known once and asked my opinion. I would tell her its wasnt right. If she didnt like it, she shouldnt have asked. If she didnt ask, I would be stepping back from the friendship anyway.

Jesus guys chill out it's a blessing doesn't matter if they say yes or no it's your decision in the end your the one getting married

In which their blessing doesnt really matter so theres no point asking.

To think that on Mumsnet of all places people are agreeing that asking fils permission to do anything is “starting things off on the right foot with your future spouse’s parents.”!

Not something worth ending your relationship over feminism at its finest 'we aren't possessions' no one said you were honey

In your opinion. In many peoples opinions, if your partner doesnt understand your values and that they are important to you, then the marriage is unlikely to be a successful one.

I would never have married a man who was not a feminist ally. No way, no how.

I’m with Dara O’Briene on this one, if some idiot asks me permission to propose to my daughter, that fucker is getting tasks

I asked my dad what his thoughts on my dp asking his blessing would be yesterday.

As per my prediction further back in the thread, he said he wouldnt be serious. Actually he said he would not let dp live it down and would take the mucky at every opportunity, unless I had told dp that's what I wanted. He said would gladly give his blessing and if it mattered to me that dp asked he would go along with it.

But he said considering the fact I am the type of person who does what they want and the world be damned, coupled with the fact that although he is my dad, he hasn't had to parent me since I was 16. He couldn't care less if he was asked or not, just as long as we didn't elope. Mum sat there and said she would kill me if I ever dared elope....

I think that's a fair way to look at it. (except death for elopement)
Not fussed about being asked unless I want it. Isn't that how it should be?

“ if you know the risks and are happy to accept the consquences if the marriage or relationship goes wrong, that's up to you.”

Well, are you happy to accept the consequences if your marriage goes wrong?

Sorry, but this line gets trotted out as ad infinitum on MN. It’s the text book response, but it’s just shows a total lack of understanding.

If I was working, the money wouid go into our family finances and in the scheme of things it would be negligible. So even as an “independent working woman”, I would have no hope of paying the our current mortgage whether I was working or not. I would be marginally less “vulnerable”, but frankly, in our situation, my salary would be neither here nor there in the event if a divorce.

Most SAHMs I know are far from dim. They fully comprehend their financial situation; they know exactly where they would stand in the event if a divorce and so on. You simply don’t risk your children’s security for no reason or without certain assurances in place. In my case I obviously weighed up the loss of “financial independence” within the context of my situation. If so was working it would just be for my own sense of independence etc, but obviously this was less important to me than the route I did take.

There are so many standard text book responses on MN that seem to take no account of the fact that everyone’s circumstances are so individual and lives nobody’s life is text book. If you’re financially vulnerable, you’re financially vulnerable, whether you work or not is just one factor in this.

Where does the writer in that wedding magazine get their 70% figure from? Plucked from the air, I imagine. Either that or they asked several people in the office and came up with that figure.

Somehow doubt there was much research behind it.